I was responding to your first comment, which was in itself pretty rude and completely uncalled for:
I never said anything about the comparative rudeness of the other guests, but it doesn’t much matter who was more rude: no one should get a pass on rudeness. The whole thing could have been avoided, as **jacquilynne **pointed out, if the BG would’ve had an etiquette clue and actually hosted the dinner herself rather than taking advantage of the kindness of her friends. What a leech!
But now that you’ve pointed out that you and your friends commonly take advantage of each other this way, I understand better where you’re coming from. It’s still rude; you just don’t know any better.
Where the hell did the rule that the invitee has to pay for everybody’s meal come from? I’ve been to plenty of birthday meals at restaurants, and this has never, ever, happened (why on Earth would it: that’d soon put a stop to any sort of celebration for birthdays; we’re supposedly all adults, not kids attending a party and expecting a booty bag and slice of cake). Everybody pays for their own, and sometimes chips in for the birthday boy/girl.
For all the people who thought the Birthday Girl’s ‘pay your own way’ invite was assholish, frankly, you guys seem to think the dinner was A Birthday Party (notice the capitals). I very much doubt it was. If the OP’s friend circle is anything like mine, birthdays and stuff are excuses to get together with friends. The point is the togetherness, not the birthday. That being the case, everyone pays their own way. Venue is decided by the person sending out invitations and it is the invitee’s choice to accept or decline.
I’m firmly a part of the young yuppie culture and wouldn’t bat an eye at being expected to pay. I suspect this might be a generational thing.
The Birthday Girl chose the location, clearly not because her guests all wanted to buy an expensive meal there, but because she wanted to eat there for her birthday and wanted her friends to fete her. This was not a simple gathering of friends all of whom know in advance who will pay for what, which would have been just fine. BG didn’t say “why don’t we all get together for dinner sometime? What do you think of TVChef Restaurant?” She INVITED people to this particular place.
In polite society, if the host invites guests, s/he provides for them. Just sayin’.
Wow, how out of touch can you get? It’s almost humbling that people still think like that (and that there’s still such thing as an “etiquette expert”, in this day and age)! The social norm, for anybody under the age of 98, is that the guests pay their own way. Like I said, who the hell is going to invite friends out for dinner, at anywhere other than a burger van, if you’re faced with a crippling bill after it? The “etiquette expert’s” method virtually precludes any birthday meal at a moderately nice restaurant.
Well, I suppose if there was such a creature it might help.
Also, if there was only one form of etiquette rather than quite a few different forms depending on the demographics and/or social groups that one finds oneself in… then yes.
Yep, and that dinner would have cost the birthday girl about $775 if my calculations are correct, which isn’t reasonable.
Not only that, but like you’ve said, I’ve never been in a situation where the host paid for the meal, unless it was a formal dinner like a rehearsal dinner for a wedding or something like that.
Oh, and $155 for two people isn’t “fine dining” by any stretch, St. Anger. It’s about average for a decent restaurant with a four or five course meal.
I am so sorry. I thought you had asked about the etiquette rule. I did not realize your question was rhetorical. I am way under the age of 98 and my husband and I host people at restaurants all the time. Since the hosts get to choose the venue, they would, of course, choose places that do not cripple them financially. If the host can only afford a “burger van,” that’s what they would choose. Hosting people at one’s home is another option. If the point is “to get together with friends,” what difference would it make where?
You can still have a nice restaurant meal when someone else offers to take you out for your birthday. When your friends invite YOU out to celebrate your birthday, it’s completely different. When YOU do the inviting, the rule applies.
If all the BG wanted was her bestest friends around her on her birthday, she could have asked them all to her house and fed them popcorn and cokes. She chose the expensive restaurant (okay, “expensive” is relative) and her friends knowing she would not have to actually be the host and pay for it. So what the heck did she care how much each dinner cost her “guests”?
Why/how would a rehearsal dinner be different from an invitation-only birthday meal at a “white tablecloth” restaurant?
I never mentioned etiquette. If American “etiquette experts” are anything like their British counterparts, their only qualification for the job is being an inbred, and their “advice” is totally unrelated to anything that happens in real life. The rules governing polite society are dictated by what actually happens in polite society, not by a manual, or diktat from a self-professed expert. Whilst the host may have been expected to pay for everybody’s meal 50 years ago, times have definitely changed.
No, this isn’t how it works at all, things are very different nowadays (says the guy who was at a birthday meal last weekend, and payed up without batting an eyelid, along with the 25+ other guests).
I recognize that this is common, and I do understand why, but if it’s going to be the new defacto standard, then it needs new etiquette rules, and they have to start with ‘Don’t tell all your friends they should have dinner at a restaurant they can’t afford.’ Yes, they can decline, of course, but when you’ve basically set the price of admission to see you at $100+, you’re putting an awfully high monetary value on your friendship.
The problem with that, of course, is that it kind of requires speculating on the financial health of your social circle which is kind of rude all on its own. Actually hosting – whether in your home or in a restaurant – eliminates this problem by making yours the only pocketbook that matters.
I’m not wealthy by any means – I live in a one bedroom basement apartment with no dining room, which is why I don’t host gatherings of this type in my home – but I do want to reciprocate the hospitality that other people show me, and so I do that in restaurants. It is a big splurge for me, something I have to find room in the budget for, but I do think it’s worth it. Others of my friends with less room in their budgets or more space in their homes cook and bake and invite people over, or BBQ on their back patio, or whatever.
No, but the answer to your question is “etiquette.”
Your question was:
Chill, dude. Why all the hostility? I just answered your question. The Straight Dope exists to fight ignorance. No one is going to take away your birthday if you don’t know/follow/agree with the rules of etiquette. Do whatever you want.
Of course its reasonable - if she can afford it. If she can’t afford it she should have picked a place she could afford. Or have people over for chips and margaritas at her house.
You don’t want to know what my husband spent inviting people to my 40th birthday party. Let’s just say that for us, it was reasonable and our guests did not pay.
Ah yes, fighting my ignorance. Here’s an FYI: This is one of those cases where you can call me ignorant and I’ll call you hopelessly out of touch.
This might possibly blow your mind, but definitions of what constitutes ‘polite society’ change with time and demographics. There are no commandments of etiquette wrought in stone and iron that require virgin sacrifice and dragon-slaying to modify.
Read above. It’s very sweet that your husband and you are such giving entertainers, but that is neither required nor the norm among all social circles. You can gnash your teeth and rend your garments at the passing of Ye Olde Days, but your point of view is no longer the only acceptable way to do things.
If everyone is expected to pay for their own meal, there is no “host”. Maybe an organizer, but no host. And no guests. It’s the difference between my cousins inviting me to a retirement party for their father, and a group of people sending around a flyer for a coworkers retirement party There is a difference between “inviting” and “informing”, and the rules on both ends are a little different. If am invited to a dinner at a seafood restaurant and I am allergic to seafood I decline. If I am informed that a group of my friends are getting together at a seafood restaurant, I will feel free to say " I’m allergic to seafood, can we go to ____ instead? " Invited to a retirement party and I can’t make it? I decline. Told that my coworkers are organizing a retirement party for another coworker while I’m on vacation? I feel free to ask that they change the date. The restaurant or the date may not be changed, but I am free to make the request. It may be that in your group, there is very little inviting done and more informing- it’s certainly the case in mine. But it doesn’t change the rules- if I actually do invite people (to dinner at a restaurant, a party at a catering hall or a BBQ in my yard) I choose the date, time ,location and menu and I pay and it would be rude for the guests to suggest a change. If I’m just the organizer, then people are free to suggest all sorts of changes everyone pays their share.
The ‘price of admission’ to see the person is not $100 every single day. Various options (and combinations thereof) present themselves:
(1) Turn down the invitation
(2) Drop a hint to your friend that the venue is out of your budget
(3) Tell them outright
(4) Make a polite excuse for the day
(5) Suggest an alternate day to separately meet and celebrate whatever
It probably never WAS the only acceptable way to do things. The people who read Emily Post were those who had time and money to care about hostess gifts. But had the birthday girl done it that way (or actually, by etiquette, you never throw yourself a birthday party - if the birthday girl’s partner had done it that way) her guests probably would have behaved themselves a lot better. Or at least St. Anger wouldn’t add the insult of having spent $155 on top of the injury of having a lousy time.
Where DanBlather thinks its unlikely that jacquilynne has any friends for following the rules, I’ve been burned by the whole “everyone chips in” thing so often that I seldom go to those things unless they are fairly well controlled and understood. I’m always stuck with more than my fair share of the check. The same people always “just have $10” with them (and have been drinking Cosmopolitans and ordering sushi all night).