So you believe people who committed torture and war crimes should go free? Spain is atleast speaking out. The US is huge. Spain doesn’t have the resources to extract by force.
That doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Is the bully right for taking a smaller kid’s lunch money?
Our country’s too ball-less and cowardly impotent to see that our war criminals, including the expresident see justice.
I don’t know if you intended it that way but your phrasing bears striking resemblance to a quote attributed to Andrew Jackson after the Supreme Court ruled Georgia had no right to ethnically cleanse the Cherokee from their homes.
“John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!”
Whether he said this or not the executive branch, under the shit-stain on the American $20 dollar bill then stood by while the state of Georgia Murdered 4,000+ plus innocent people in the Trail of Tears.
Well, IIRC it took then the arrest of Pinochet in European soil (yeah, he also thought it was just a political ploy too so he traveled to Europe expecting that nothing would happen to him) for the new Chilean government to be shamed into doing the right thing once Pinochet got back to Chile in disgrace.
The U.S. government is bound by treaties signed by previous administrations. Laws passed by people long dead are still in the books. I’d say that the government has an independent existance that transcends the individuals in power, and I’m pretty sure any lawyers you find will back me up.
If the U.S has illegally imprisoned Spanish citizens, it should release them, apologize to them and to the Spanish people, and pay reperations. The actual U.S. officials involved in the affair are irrelevant - the U.S. as a whole was responsible, not them. This is a matter between the U.S. and Spain.
American courts have indicted many people who they cannot get their hands on. Does that mean they are “not putting their money where their mouths are”?
Since when does a judge command the armies of a country and should only indict if he is ready to invade?
Your post makes no sense. Specially because, as I say, there are equivalent cases in every country of people who are accused of crimes and yet the judiciary cannot bring them before the court.
That you have a problem with this particular case just shows that you would rather that these crimes were not even mentioned.
For me if it results in the shame and ignominy of some American officials never being able to set foot in Europe due to being accused of crimes they committed on behalf of the American government then that is something worth the exercise.
But to say Spain should be ready to confront America violently is just plain silly. America did not invade France to get their hands on that murderer they were after. Was that a “silly little power play” by America?
While I agree that foreign policy should be dictated by reproductive organs, I’m curious whether you favor, size, weight, or potency as the most important metric.
The Americans did not have the cojones to “come and get” Ira Einhorn.
The Americans have resorted to criminal kidnapings rather than legal extraditions. You know like “terrorists” do.
If you are going to claim that force makes right then don’t come crying me a fucking river when your enemies blow up a couple of skyscrapers or kill a few thousand of your people. What goes around comes around. The goose and the gander and all that. Learn about the stiff upper lip and grin and bear it.
You know what, Sailor, I’d probably agree with you if the Spanish courts hadn’t tried this sort of shit before. As things stand, though, their implicit statement is, “Your legal system is incompetant. We, as the more *moral *nation, will carry out justice in your stead.”
No sovereign state can accept this sort of attitude - especially from a country that was a fascist state barely 30 years ago.
Of course if America had the cojones they like to think they have they would be the first ones to prosecute crimes committed by their own citizens. But that is too much to ask from America apparently. America has the balls to beat up weaker kids but not enough to own up to its own mistakes. That is asking too much. And you don’t want to ask too much… unless you want to get beat up too.
And that comes from a genocidal country… oh yes, thanks for putting Garzón on high moral ground (just pointing out that’s how some people and I can name a few in this board would describe Israel, let’s not start dragging the corpses is how I see it - I do think that the Americans shouldn’t have let things get out of hand, I do think if the incoming government of any country should prosecute wrongdoings by previous governments, I do think any government officer found doing what he shouldn’t should be prosecuted and not patted… but I also think it shouldn’t be done by some foreigner who likes being on TV)
Can you explain what that has to do with anything?
And how is this a Spain vs. USA thing? Because in Spain, like in the USA, the judiciary is independent and they indict and try whoever seems to have committed a crime. So how is it exactly that one judge’s decision is now a “Spanish” decision? And how is that decision wrong? and what has anything else to do with it?
If I, as a Spaniard, am tried by an American court, can I also disqualify the court by saying America has done many things which were wrong? Would that fly?
Because the people involved were actibg as representatives of the U.S. governments, not as private citizens; and becasue there is no such thing as objectivity in international relations.
An important thing to note, indeed, people tend to forget the workings of the “Inquiry Judge” system. Back when last year people were wondering about possible future prosecutions for the “Bushies”, my initial thought was “Oh, don’t worry, Baltasar Garzón’s probably waiting for 12:01pm on Inauguration Day” .
(But yes, BG should get himself a caped costume, a teenage sidekick and a BaltaSignal searchlight to fully complete the vibe he has been giving off in the years since the Pinochet case, I think he really believes he’s the World’s Greatest Justicemonger.)
This has not stopped the USA from trying a bunch of Germans in Nuremberg for what they personally did. If you commit crimes against humanity it is no defense that you were acting for any government, you are personally on the hook.
The only true shame in all of this is that America is willing to let crimes committed by Americans go unpunished. If America had the guts to do the right thing all this would not be happening. But America does not have the will to prosecute their own criminals. Abu Ghraib, My Lai, Guantanamo, etc, are all covered up or in the most desperate of cases covered up under a mockery of a judicial trial. A few underlings are given light sentences and the higher ups escape all consequences. That is the real shame which this incident serves to highlight. And I bet that is what the judge has in mind.
It is the USA who takes the holier than thou attitude of saying only the US judicial system is beyond reproach and all others are politically motivated when in reality the US system is quite worse than many others.
If america will not punish its own criminals then I for one am happy that at least some activist judge in Europe makes a point of keeping such undesirables out of Europe.
Decades ago it was the USSR where such things happened and where people had to take refuge and could not leave for fear of being prosecuted abroad. Now it is the USA who is willing to take that role of protecting criminals.
And it was the USA who has claimed in the past universal jurisdiction for crimes against humanity so it should not be surprised if now this comes to bite them in the ass.
(just pointing out that’s how some people and I can name a few in this board would describe Israel, let’s not start dragging the corpses is how I see it - I do think that the Americans shouldn’t have let things get out of hand, I do think if the incoming government of any country should prosecute wrongdoings by previous governments, I do think any government officer found doing what he shouldn’t should be prosecuted and not patted… but I also think it shouldn’t be done by some foreigner who likes being on TV)