I’d like to know how people feel about the recent decision to ban public voluntary prayer at the football game of a high-school (sorry, I don’t have enough info for big specifics, but most of you out there should know what I’m talking about). A lot of people are against the decision to ban voluntary prayer, which is understandable, since, after all, it is VOLUNTARY prayer, so anybody who doesn’t want to participate can just… not participate.
But consider this:
Along with the mass Christian prayer, there’s some more after that… Hindu prayer, Buddhist, maybe even <GASP> Satanic prayer. Not only would it take up a big chunk of time out of the sports-goer’s life, but in the case of Satanic prayer, it would most likely offend people. But, you can’t ban Satanic prayer at the game unless you ban all the others… it’s just fair.
I myself am Christian, but I like to keep with the whole equality thing… I don’t care what religion you are, or ethnic group, you should get the same rights as everyone else…
Hmm, I might’ve strayed off from the original topic a little. Oh well.
In any case, post what you think.
Peace out.
Oh, and so we get something clarified before I get a rash of replies telling me I’m wrong about something:
I don’t have a great wealth of information on any of the above-mentioned religions other than Christianity. I know a little about Hinduism and Buddhism, but not enough to teach a class on the matter. For all I know, Satanism, Hinduism, and Buddhism might not even have prayer (I’m pretty sure Buddhists are anti-organized prayer, but don’t quote me).
I’m not ignorant… just uninformed.
Well, as for the Buddhist, there is not an organized prayer, because there is no prayer. There are, however, rituals of sorts used for medetative purposes, which are often performed in groups–both large and small.
Now then, my personal opinion:
I’m all for keeping voluntary prayer out of schools. That’s not to say that a player can’t say a quick little prayer to themself before the game, but as a former public school athlete and atheist, I know that I would have felt extremely left out in such a situation. What am I supposed to do while the team prays; run laps or just sit on the ground? Schools sports are, in theory anyway, about participation and inclusion (I know, ha ha ha, like that ever happens, but you get the point). A policy that is exclusionary and brings a religious function into the school isn’t permissable.
You know, if I want to pray, I can just pray to myself in my head.
So why do they need to have an organized time for praying? If you want to pray, just do it, but don’t make everyone else do it to!
Besides, I thought we were supposed to pray privately, rather than in public just to show off?
Bottom line:it’s unconstitutional for any event sponsored by a governmental body(this includes public schools) to endorse
any form of corporate religious expression, which includes praying before a sporting event.
You wanna pray? do it on your own, nobody’s stopping you. We don’t make churches teach spelling or algebra; don’t make school events into church events.
A quick note on Buddhism. Buddhism definetely has prayers. Otherwise I don’t know what the fuck I was doing at Green Gulch for two days chanting “Nam-myoho-renge-kyo”
Although you do have it partially right Myrr21. Prayer is meditation. It’s not some plea to a higher power, it’s a way of looking in at one self. It is prayer though.
Prayer can be meditation; it can also be supplication, praise, and thanksgiving.
Just to clarify a point, “Nam-myoho-renge-kyo” is not a prayer so much as it is a chant to aid in meditation. It’s used by Nichiren Shoshu, a Japanese Buddhist sect once allied with Soka Gakkai.
goboy - so how come the house of Reps has a chaplain, and starts every session w/ a benediction?
Add me to the list who feel there’s no one stopping believers from praying any time they want to. (Who said, as long as there are tests, there will be prayer in schools?) If you want to engage in organized demonstrative expressions, do it in church. Folk who believe have a hard time understanding how offensive coerced expressions of faith are to nonbelievers. The questions I have never had answered is, why is public prayer in secular settings needed, and why does it not matter that nonbelievers are offended/excluded? It only makes sense if you say, a majority of the folk who started this country, and a majority today, are christians, so screw the rest of you.
The case involved the Sante Fe Independent School District near Houston, TX. The students elected a person to deliver a “message” before each game. A Jewish and Catholic family sued the school district.
Christian organizations argued that the student body elected the person to deliver any “message” they chose. The fact that every “message” delivered was a Christian prayer was downplayed. Since the student body elected the person and a prayer was not required, the Christian organizations argued that this was not sponsored by the school district and was therefore legal.
What was conveniently left out was that the school district DID retain the right to review the “message” before being given and could reject a “message” they thought inappropriate.
What it boiled down to was that a prayer was given before every game and anyone who disagreed was ostracized. As a matter of fact, a Jewish boy attending the school (not the one that filed the lawsuit) was verbally threatened and harassed. The school district wasted hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars arguing for the right to offer a Christian prayer before a football game. Anyone from Texas can tell you that football and religion are on equal footing here.
Because, oddly enough, Congress itself is not bound by the church/state separation doctrine. I have to look up the legal precedents for this, though.
Yeah - not subject to civil rights or equal protection in hiring either. Neat trick, huh?
I would like to see these precedants. Had I posed a WAG, I would have simply said that it was atradition that remained unchallenged by any members of Congress because it would be political suicide to do so.
So far I really haven’t seen anybody who’s against ban of prayer in schools and school events.
It’s kind of funny about all the Christian links in Government. Just imagine what people’s reactions would be if coins said “In Satan we Trust”. One shudders to think about the possible power of the protests.
I have to admit, it’s kind of neat to have a religion with such a stronghold in the country, but it still seems like people really overdo it. So far, America’s had some positive results as to racial equality, but not so much for religious equality. Maybe that’s because people have been fighting for a longer time over religion than skin color. But I could be wrong.
I went to highschool in Texas and me, an atheist, and my best friend, a Jew, went to almost every football game. We were both insulted more often than not by the chaplain. I remember we tried to work out a prayer that would be fair to everyone:
“Our other worldly parent, who may or may not exist…”
Well, you get the idea. At least we had eachother to mutter to under our breaths to at the inevitable invocation of Jesus.
Here’s a passage I found here.
Congressional immunity allows Congress to keep a chaplain
and have Christian invocations. I checked FindLaw.com for a legal cite, but I came up dry, probably because of poorly defined search parameters.