Speaking of video, if the police were expecting trouble you’d think they’d have set up cameras or something to at least document what went down outside. Maybe dash cams pointed toward the front of the restaurant or something.
IMO, I don’t think that could/would/be allowed by any police force much less them doing it to themselves. :rolleyes:
How many had vest cameras? I have not heard of any civilians using their phone cameras. A lot does not add up as stated up thread. 
YMMV
What do you mean by that? I remember being in the middle of a Pagan/Hells Angels stare down about 15 years ago. Dash cams were new then to us but we made sure they were on. We were hoping that nothing started (and it didn’t turn violent) but it was good for intel.
The SDMB is disappointing me. I was mostly expecting a shrill flame-war about this topic.
Just so this exchange doesn’t get lost in the mix, here’s a repeat.
This ^
Following this ^ is a thing of beauty. I laughed, so props to Mr. Kitchen.
Here’s the rather silly article I read that first brought the topic up:
A biased and inflamatory article from The Daily Kos? This is my shocked face. :eek:
I bet it took a while for someone high up the food chain to say, “Fuck it charge them all.” In the mean time, at some point those left behind after the initial shooting and arrests were compliant and just needed to be watched over.
I have a feeling they are going to have a hard time making all of those charges stick. But as a peace keeping measure it probably made sense.
Do you and Rick Kitchen not have the internet? Seriously guys it the teens. It’s time to embrace modern technology, William.
Several media outlets, and the Waco police spokesman, have mentioned RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) related charges. Many 1% MC are already considered organized crime organizations. I assume the State Attorney will be adding racketeering to the various murder, battery, and illegal weapons charges.
Oh I know they will try. And I’m sure they will have probable cause for the charges. I just have doubts they will have enough evidence for a conviction for a lot of the defendants. For many of those arrested the evidence seems to be they were wearing colors and they were there. Is that enough? I don’t know. RICO is a bit above my pay grade.
It’s different for those individuals that they can tie to specific acts or weapons. That is a separate issue and I’ll assume they have much more evidence on certain defendants.
As for the jail cells, they opened up the convention center.
http://kxan.com/2015/05/19/police-waco-shooting-spurred-from-biker-gang-turf-war/
As for cameras and video, what makes you think they didn’t? If the cops took video, it’s certainly not going to be released to the media at this point.
They have had plainclothes officers inside the restaurant for the past two months, but the owner didn’t want to turn away business due to a safety issue.
“As of about a week ago, we were in contact with the national management of Twin Peaks because we were getting no cooperation locally, and we were going to them for assistance,” said Swanton. “People have civil rights. Until a law is broken, there’s nothing we can do if we don’t have management to support — to assist us — in keeping individuals out of a business. There’s nothing we can do until a law is broken.”
In about three weeks, the Republic of Texas Bike Rally is scheduled to be held in Austin. Usually, there’s a few fights and 2-4 people die racing. I intend to go home Friday after work and not poke my head out til they’ve all gone home. I live near one of their favorite “drive up and down til 5am making as much racket as we can” areas.
No, I’ve never heard of this internet that you speak of. I send all my communications out via carrier pigeon. Thanks for recognizing all my hard work and effort to relate to you folks. It’s so worth it, as this proves.
Standard patrol officers with their shotguns out and maybe (and I consider it only a maybe at this point) like officers with their handguns clear of the leather and at their sides. The former is a questionable act; the second is no-go in any department I know.
Dash cams maybe; I’m not sure if Waco uses them or not. Security cams in the area are a better bet. Some cop using his phone to record the scene? Not even in Texas. It is possible - just possible - that command and control could have set up a camera to cover the scene especially if SWAT was involved but the odds of hitting the lottery are better than that footage ever seeing the light of day.
For “Police and Drawn Weapons”
The BART* cops (one of whom was charged with Murder) are/were taught to approach any “situation” with guns drawn.
I found it incredible, but this was the SF Chronicle’s site (SFGate).
Anyone hear of others?
As to Waco. Old-line bikers and TX cops. I doubt either side wanted video evidence.
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- Bay Area Rapid Transit (as in San Francisco Bay)
No, I am not certain what incidents rose to “situations”.
They’re not going to have much of a choice, given it was a busy shopping center, and I am wagering that a lot of the businesses had video covering the lot. It’s probably all in the giant CF that I’m sure is the evidence collection enterprise for something this massive.
I am flatly amazed that there (AIUI) isn’t yet any “WorldStar!” footage of the brawl or shootings floating around liveleak. Other than that 30 second clip that showed next to nothing. And was vertical to boot, IIRC.
Just noticed this article in the Daily Mail (UK): Suspect in Waco shoot-out revealed to be a retired DETECTIVE as it’s revealed bikers will likely escape toughest charges because county can’t afford to prosecute all 170 of them
A few highlights:
Article points out that the price of prosecuting all 170 will be ruinous for the county, suggesting that they will probably let most of them go.
Someone upthread commented on a photo, saying it looked like a tail-gate party: Police watching over a crowd of bikers who were talking on their phones, etc. This article shows a different pic: About 30 bikers lined up in parking lot being searched by cops. Scroll down towards the bottom, there appears to be a video of that. Another pic shows one cop, gun out, holding several bikers laying face down in the lot. Many more pics too that I hadn’t seen elsewhere.
That’s an unusual stud in his lip, almost looks like a toggle switch for beard color.
Yesterday the NY Times reported 8 of the dead were Cossacks and one a Bandido. Preliminary report too was that four of the dead were killed by law enforcement. We’ll see if those numbers hold up and, if so, what effect they might have on any future revenge altercations.
About the million dollar bail for each, apparently there were three members that were arrested away from the scene and their bail, set lower, allowed them to bond out. However, if I’m reading it correctly they subsequently showed back up at the crime scene wearing colors, possibly with weapons, were re-arrested and currently are in jail now on a million dollar bail themselves.
As mentioned it’ll be quite expensive for the county to prosecute all these guys and many of the peripherally involved will likely walk. But regardless, any lost wages for the employed, court and fine costs, loss of weapon, bike towing and storage costs, legal costs… it’s going to be very expensive for even those that get off relatively easy. A CF all the way around for every club and member present. Yes, some messages were sent and a lot of this action is always going to happen regardless of the repercussions but the cost to all was undeniably high.
Unfortunately i am from waco. Its a bunch of ignorant bs over a parking space and about pride. The bikers weren’t even from waco. The restaurant was warned about them and they did not listen. Now the restaurant is permanently shut down. Other bikers were said to be showing up after the bs. Buses had to reroute. Nine dead eighteen injured. Locked down hospital and they were there all night reporting. One hundred and seventy were arrested and question. The cops opened fire on them when it started. So basically a bunch of nonsense.
Video from the restaurant shows the shooting did indeed start outside and the police admit that they did fire on the bikers - or at least people who looked like bikers. Some of the motorcyclists there were basically innocent bystanders no quite aware enough to get out of Dodge before it all broke loose. Now the question becomes who shot first and how many of the dead and wounded are from the police.
(the number of 1% clubs present in some way is up to 7 and members from about 12 other clubs (more riding and owner clubs than “gangs”) present)