Waitstaff pays for "walk out" tabs - defend this practice

[PunditLisa]

@drewtwo99

I didn’t edit a damn word you said.

You most certainly did.

[runningdude]

@runner pat

Then how can the waitstaff be expected to keep track of a larger number of diners(per waiter) if the manager can’t keep track of a few waiters.
The only place I ever see a management presence is in fast food places.
It’s vanishingly rare to see a manager on the floor anywhere else unless you ask to see them.

The penalties are not to stop dine-and-dashers, but to deter employee theft. Directly confronting thieves is too dangerous for the waitstaff.

The only recourse is to provide attentive service to avoid a dash of opportunity. Splitting the loss among the employees shares the risk, and encourages cooperation in providing attentive service. It also encourages reporting of employee theft, because now a thief is stealing from everyone.

[CrazyCatLady]

@runningdude

The manager can’t be watching every waiter equally at all times.

Well, why the hell not? If it’s reasonable for a server to keep up with 20 or so customers equally at all times, even when she’s in the kitchen putting in and picking up orders, why on earth wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect a manager to keep up with 5-10 servers?

[AnaMen]

@Dangerosa

But Perkins needs waitstaff. Should they chase away the waitstaff they do have by making them pay for the checks of walkouts? That doesn’t seem like a good business practice to chase away everyone but people who can’t find any other job in town and are willing to put up with your shit. I mean, its Perkins, but Grandma needs somewhere to go after church (she doesn’t generally dine and dash) and people need somewhere to get pie after bar close (which I suspect is the bigger potential liability - although Grandma is getting pretty forgetful).

I have no idea what Perkins should do. I haven’t been to one in 15 years or so because the service is terrible. Maybe the business is poorly run. They don’t seem to be very popular, but rely on the nowhere-else-is-open clientele, so staff that no one else would hire seems appropriate.
No offense to any Perkins-workers out there, obviously a few dozen bad apples do not speak for the whole barrel, as they say.

[CarnalK]

@PunditLisa

You most certainly did.

Then you should report it because that is against the rules.

[Uncle_Brother_Walker]

{TLDR}…

The cost of the bill is not irrelevant.

I have worked at fine dining restaurants, bars, and family dining experiences alike. A “dine and dash” sucks wherever it is. And, yes, it does happen in fine dining. There are always scammers out there.

IME, a local place that offers a deal at the lunch rush often means a two-top (two patrons) ordering the lunch special, usually under $8 a person. You might get a total of $20 on the tab, after sodas and/or drinks. If you’re lucky, you get a $5 tip. More likely than not, you get a $2 tip (one buck from each person). So it’s not so bad on a lunch rush if you have a good sized section or some good-tipping regulars. If this one walks out on you, I can cover it. It might be about half of my lunch-rush tips, but it won’t kill me on paying the rent.

On the other hand, folks dipping out on a Friday night happy-hour tab that turns into a “closing time” tab is a different matter. I’ve got many a horror story about both customers and waitstaff (from ours and other restaurants) walking out on tabs. Just ask.

[PunditLisa]

@CarnalK

Then you should report it because that is against the rules.

He didn’t use the quote feature.

[CarnalK]

@PunditLisa

He didn’t use the quote feature.

Well then feel free to continue not supporting your accusation.

[MrDurden]

I guess the rules of the forum prevent one from calling another a troll.

But I think we all should let this thread die and agree to disagree. No one who looks at service industry workers as a sort of lower lifeform is going to be convinced, and the flag of the common blue collar worker isn’t going to convince the upper class. (or people that spout their respective viewpoints)

[Evil_Captor]

@actualliberalnotoneofthose

This is not standard and does not happen in reputable places. For some reason, it’s something that gets repeated a lot (like the myth about cashiers being legally responsible for register shortages), and I think people think it happens more than it does.

Everyone I know has worked in a restaurant in some capacity, many waiting tables. It’s basically required where I grew up. I have never heard of anyone paying the tab for thieves or being expected to.

I saw it happen in a Red Lobster restaurant once.

[Evil_Captor]

@AnaMen

The world is a mysterious and inconsistent place.

The thief occupied a table that could have been occupied by full-paying customers. Many restaurants will charge 50% for walkouts, many claim they will charge, but seldom or never really do, and many don’t charge at all. The point is that it IS the staff’s job to make sure customers pay, regardless of the consequence for failing. Yes, sometimes it is difficult, maybe even impossible. A lot of jobs don’t have a perfect success rate, no matter how hard one tries. The threat of having to pay is a personal incentive for them to do their best. Keeping the business profitable keeps those same workers with a place to work.

After reading so many rationales from you about why it’s OK to stick it to the wait staff when people dine and dash, I have come to conclusion that the important thing for you is not the rationale, it’s sticking it to the wait staff.

[MandaJo]

@runningdude

Nobody expects the waiter or waitress to confront a dine and dasher.

This is basically an economics problem. The restaurant has razor thin margins. It has to pay the rent, the utilities, the cook staff and manager’s salary, and part of the waitstaff’s salary.

The waitstaff basically work on commission; it’s there duty to collect orders and ensure payment. If their good service attracts customers, they directly benefit from increased tips. They inherently share in financial the risk of operating the restaurant (unlike in most jobs). This is no different than taking up a door-to-door sales job.

Unfortunately, disgruntled waitstaff are common enough, that strict penalties must be used to ensure they don’t skim off the customers. The manager can’t be watching every waiter equally at all times. If the waiters skim, they risk being fired, but collect a few extra bucks. If they are tricky, they could get away with this several times, before being caught.

They could cost the restaurant a few hundred dollars before being fired, and this money is basically unrecoverable. The owner could go to court, but that costs time and money, and the perpetrator likely spent it already to avoid giving it back. Meanwhile, the restaurants likely just breaks even, and could go out of business altogether from repeated losses to theft.

Having to pay the bill discourages skimming or giving free meals to friends. Sharing the cost of a dine-and-ditcher among all the employees insures the honest ones a smaller loss, and provides incentive to other employees to report skimming and other abuses. People can only reliably be predicted to work in their best interest, and financial interests are among the easiest to predict. This is especially necessary in large chains, where the employees likely think it is nothing but a faceless corporation, where stealing from it hurts no one. If everyone acted this way, even the large chain would fold.

It boils down to waitsaff being an inherently financially risky occupation. If a self employed individual were to lose money, he’d have only himself to blame. If a door-to-door salesman were to lose money, nobody would blame his suppliers; it is simply an occupational risk. Waitstaff should be viewed in a similar manner; they contribute and share directly in the success or failure of the business. If this is unacceptable, they should find alternative employment.

Razor-thin margins are not unique to restaurants. Look at a grocery store if you want to see thin margins. Look at any highly competitive business. The potential for employee theft is not unique to restaurants: many businesses have people in place who are in a position to steal small amounts of money over time. Think of retail: shrinkage from shoplifting is obscene. The waste of food is not unique to dine-and-dashers: meals have to be returned and discarded all the time. Making waitstaff pay for dine and dash is also apparently not an industry standard: it’s illegal many places and uncommon but not unheard of in others.

You seem to be arguing that it’s a necessary evil because there is just no other way to keep a restaurant going. But there are tons of analogous situations in business that don’t use this policy, and tons of restaurants that could use this policy but don’t. So I remain unconvinced.

[PunditLisa]

@CarnalK

Well then feel free to continue not supporting your accusation.

I already did in post #115. If you can’t be arsed to scroll up, here is what Drewtwo99 said:

@Drewtwo99

Perhaps you’re confused on what it means to have an opinion.

“The Mona Lisa is an overrated piece of shit.” - Statement of Opinion

“Some people don’t dine and dash because they know it personally affects their waiter.” - Statement of Objective Fact

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Nobody is entitled to their own reality.

Here is what I ACTUALLY said:

“I’d imagine that there are a number of people who don’t dine and dash BECAUSE they know that the waiter would have to pay for it.”

“I opined that the policy of docking waiters undoubtedly deters some dine and dashers.”

There is no way that any reasonable person could conclude that I made a statement of fact when I clearly stated that it was my opinion. He edited what I said before coming to his bogus conclusion.

[AnaMen]

@Evil_Captor

After reading so many rationales from you about why it’s OK to stick it to the wait staff when people dine and dash, I have come to conclusion that the important thing for you is not the rationale, it’s sticking it to the wait staff.

Did you miss the thread title?
I’ve been the wait staff. I tip well. If I ever own a restaurant, I would not charge staff for walkouts. But I don’t think it is really so terrible, indefensible, appalling, irrational, abusive, etc.

[YogSothoth]

@bienville

The “reasoning” is that if there were no consequences for the server there would be no disincentive to the server pocketing the entire payment from cash paying guests then claiming that the guests walked out without paying.

How is this different from somebody working at a department store? Why would waiters specifically be more apt to pocket money from a customer than someone working in a supermarket, a department store, or a florist? This kind of distrust of waiters and general lack of empathy for a low-wage, low-respect job is indicative of how bad management is rather than wait staff

To me, waiters are no more likely to pocket money from customers than any other occupation. The restaurant needs to bear all responsibility

[Malthus]

The disincentive for waitstaff to steal is the same as the disincetive for anyone else - they run the risk of being caught, fired, and charged with an offence. If they did this regularly, that risk becomes a near certainty. What happens, for example, when they pocket the money of a repeat customer, claim dine-and-dash, and the customer comes back the next day?

I’m not sure I see a need for a policy such as this to discourage waitstaff from stealing, over and above the usual consequences of stealing from your employer.

[runningdude]

@MandaJo

Razor-thin margins are not unique to restaurants. Look at a grocery store if you want to see thin margins. Look at any highly competitive business. The potential for employee theft is not unique to restaurants: many businesses have people in place who are in a position to steal small amounts of money over time. Think of retail: shrinkage from shoplifting is obscene. The waste of food is not unique to dine-and-dashers: meals have to be returned and discarded all the time. Making waitstaff pay for dine and dash is also apparently not an industry standard: it’s illegal many places and uncommon but not unheard of in others.

You seem to be arguing that it’s a necessary evil because there is just no other way to keep a restaurant going. But there are tons of analogous situations in business that don’t use this policy, and tons of restaurants that could use this policy but don’t. So I remain unconvinced.

The premise of the post is to “defend” the practice. I think it could have some limited economic value, but I also don’t think the waitstaff should be generally stuck with the whole bill.

I worked in retail last winter, and the store had a policy that allowed it to inspect employees for obvious signs of shoplifting before leaving the store. It was never used, but if employee theft became an issue, it was a tool at their disposal. The dine-and-dash policy only makes sense if a manager/owner suspects his an employee is skimming, but doesn’t have sufficient proof yet. Implemented on an “as needed” basis, I don’t think is diabolical.

[handsomeharry]

@MrDurden

You just expose your own ignorance in the restaurant industry claiming they can ‘watch’ the table 100% of the time and that is their only job. And that thusly they must be responsible for someone who runs out on them? Are you that dense? :rolleyes:

Where did I say that they can ‘watch’ the table 100% of the time?
Their *only *job???
Read before you write.

I won’t go into the rest of your expose :rolleyes: since it involves more nuances than time/desiretoargue permits.

Btw, why is ‘watch’ in quotation marks??? You are a strange one, MrDurden.

[lobotomyboy63]

@MandaJo

Another problem is that this requirement is that it basically requires a waiter or waitress to risk their personal safety. Googleing “Waitress run over” produces a a long list of waitresses run over in parking lots. And I am sure there have been waiters and waitresses shoved out of the way, knocked down, whatever, when confronting people in the store. When someone holds up a McDonalds, we don’t expect the counter person to risk their personal safety; in fact, most retail like places will fire you for confronting a robber. It’s not clear to me how this isn’t a double standard.

That is where I think lawsuits could and should and must happen: if I were orphaned because my mom had to either confront a dude running out on a $12 tab or lose her job, I sure hope a lawyer would sue the restaurant on my behalf.

Add to this that some waitresses are killed by dashers. I remember reading about one some years ago. They dashed, she ran after them, jumped on their car, and got thrown off as they drove away. Mr. Head, meet Mr. Curb, something like that.

Seems to me a lot of the problem might be alleviated with video cameras. In the parking lot, you could get some license plate numbers. In the restaurant, you’d have some faces to put with those plates. I’m sure it wouldn’t fix 100% of the problem and it would add to the diners’ bills but…

[runningdude]

@lobotomyboy63

Add to this that some waitresses are killed by dashers. I remember reading about one some years ago. They dashed, she ran after them, jumped on their car, and got thrown off as they drove away. Mr. Head, meet Mr. Curb, something like that.

I hate to be blunt, but the waitress here was stupid. Why would you jump on a car over even a $100 bill? At this point, the thief of a customer is justified escaping the clearly unstable waitperson…