Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.
There’s a first time for everything. Not that I think it’s ever going to come to this, but I think you’re seriously overestimating Egypt’s military capabilities.
I’m not seeing the advantage here since Israel gets even more U.S. aid- a point you’ve been making in this thread. I think Israel and Egypt are the two largest recipients of U.S. foreign aid. And to refer back to your point on oil: the U.S. doesn’t get any oil from Iran. If Iran started cutting off oil exports from and to other countries, they would piss off a lot of countries. And again, I don’t think any of this is going to come to pass. Ahmadinejad is a creep but he does not run Iran, so even his most repulsive statements don’t count for much.
First of all, the British press has predicted seven of the last zero Israeli airstrikes on Iran, due to the remarkable insight of all those anonymous sources.
Secretary Clinton said the US and Israel have an “unshakable bond.” Not that “Israel can do anything it wants and we will never object.”
What’s more, Admiral Mullen recently refused to describe US policy on shooting down Israeli jets headed for Iran. Link. If the US were committed to allowing Israel to attack, one would think he would have plainly stated, no, we will not shoot down the jets of a friendly nation. He didn’t do that.
Way to take ambiguity and spin it to an anti-US talking point. But you’re not really interested in facts, are you?
Wars are never won by the air or sea.
Ground troops are the ones who eventually take over power.
Look at Afghanistan as an example.
A huge military presence with NATO and they can’t even secure Kandahar.
They can’t even defeat Taliban tribesmen who only have old rifles and rockets.
Middle eastern army’s are trained differently.
They don’t need all that sophistication that the US is manufacturing and selling and fooling everyone into buying;)
When it comes down to it it is stamina and ability to work in that terrain and most importantly and this is something NATO have no clue about as yet. Understanding and knowing your enemy.
Afghanistan will never be won by the US and its allies. Alexander the Great couldn’t do it.
General Mc Crystal is no Alexander the Great.
Soldiers dying for nothing.
oh and you might as well to add Turkey to the Egypt and Syria ‘bad boys’. 
Turkey and Egypt recently got Netanyahu to cancel his trip to Washington when they decided to confront him about his nuclear arsenal.
We’ve all heard of spray and pray. 
Seriously, though, you’ll find almost nobody on this board who would support an invasion of Iran. If you think that’s the case, you’re completely mistaken. And I think you’d find most people here have ambiguous feeling about Israel, too - although your ‘we could kick their ass’ rhetoric (in addition to probably being wrong) is a little creepy.
Okay
Israel population is what? 7 million?
Egypt is 80+ million.
Egypt’s population is very young.
Egyptians feel very strongly about Palestinians.
Egypt has a huge army.
Israel is surrounded by countries that hate it.
As I said no war can be won by air and sea so ground troops will have to win. Make no mistake that if there is war the everyday Egyptian will be signing up to finish what they should have finished long ago. This is how they feel. That’s fact.
There would be no shortage of recruits believe me if they thought Sinai would be involved again and it would.
Also Israel is tiny in comparison.
It would be hit from all sides. Syria, Jordan and Egypt. That is in the first wave. It wouldn’t take long to finish Israel at all. That is why I cannot understand at all why they just cannot live in peace like they did centuries ago. Arabs and Jews together???
They have made people hate them. They are not from the region but from Europe so don’t even have roots here most of them.
So the US has paid all that money to build Egypts military. Do you really think that if they thought it would spread out to Sinai they wouldn’t attack if Iran was attacked?
They couldn’t even fight hezbullah??
As for oil.
The strait of Hormuz is where the tankers pass through. Imagine this.
Say one oil tanker is blown up by Iran even tomorrow.
What would happen to maritime insurance premiums;)
The price of oil then?
Saudi, UAE, Iraq, Kuwait, all export their oil through the strait.
I doubt it would happen but you never know. The US and Israel would be committing suicide.
You would also probably find that a strike on Iran would be the calayst for a muslim reunification and all Arab countries would stand up and fight against the as they call it ‘The Great Satan’.
When it comes to religion and God and the Judgement day in war, you’d probably find Saudi etc turning to Islamic roots rather than ties with the West.
Sunni…Shia at the end of the day they are all muslims.
sorry not heard that one?
It would be suicide if they did invade Iran. But Israel has threatened to so anything is possible especially with Netanyahu in control:(
Did I say ‘kick your ass’?
Sorry about that;)
I’m not creepy:D
Not to mention, historically not supported by the facts. To date they haven’t lost a standup fight yet. and the disaster of the Hezbollah offensive was bad, but still VERY lopsided on casualties, and an interesting learning point. Would be interesting to see what the IDF is doing for MOUT training now…
I find it repugnant that apparently lobbing missles with no guidance is ok, since they miss, but folks that are harmed, demonstrably by the fact (I am willing to bet in many cases) that the terrorists intentionally use schools, hospitals, and civilian populated areas to launch their attacks from, HOPING that the IDF will kill innocents so they can scream to the press about the atrocities that were done.
It sucks. Nobody says it doesn’t.
But are you honestly saying if the situation were reversed, if the PA had the means to invade Isreal proper that there wouldn’t be civilian deaths on a massive scale, driven by the fallacy that the Isreali’s are living in “Palestine” (a nation that didn’t exist even before Isreal was created) and must be destroyed?
Would you be ok with Isreal lobbing rockets into Egypt without Egypt doing anythign about it?
Do you want a war with Iran? 
Appearing to countenance the assassination of a foreign leader, on the way to the United Nations no less, wouldn’t be healthy for American relations with a couple hundred other countries, either.
That’s right. My understanding is also that Iran has the right, under the treaty, to conduct uranium enrichment. And to participate in the conference and propose changes to the treaty terms and structure.
Not to make excuses or justifications for Iranian actions at other times, but the walkout by US/UK/France, in itself, suggests that it is those representatives who are not approaching the conference in good faith.
You don’t read a whole lot of history books, do you?
As for the contention that Iran can just suspend oil exports and the US and Europe will be screwed, well, how does Iran keep the lights on? The Iranian government is absolutely dependent on oil exports to function. Without the money from oil exports Iran will be in chaos within months.
Let’s take a step back here: none of this is going to happen. You do sound a little like you’re hoping to prove you’re right, but regardless, it’s not happening. Israel is not that aggressive or irrational, I don’t think Iran is either, and I don’t think any of their neighbors are interested in turning the issues of those two countries into a regional war that would leave a lot of very expensive palaces destroyed.
And we’re making a lot of assumptions here. (Mostly you’re making assumptions to support ‘your’ side.) You’re right, Israel doesn’t have the power to occupy Egypt and I’m sure they don’t have the interest, or probably the people, to rebuild it afterward even if they did. I also don’t think Israel is going to invade Iran, and if it does, I don’t think you’re going to see Egypt and Jordan get involved. Egypt and Jordan have both had solid relationships with Israel for a pretty long time- more than any other countries in the region, in fact. And what would the benefit for them be? Pissing off two nuclear nations to help Iran become more powerful? If they helped and Iran won, Iran would finish developing nuclear weapons and be the most powerful country in the region. How is that good for Egypt and Jordan? And the worst case scenario, of course, is that Israel could use nuclear weapons on them. I’m not seeing a lot of benefits for them here.
I don’t think you put all the blame for that one on Israel. It’s a long damn story and a lot of people are suffering today because of a lot of historical stupidity.
You can’t negotiate or excuse them away, though. Some of these people do have long-term roots in Israel, and all of them live there, even if it hasn’t been for very long. They’re not going anywhere. A few people have a big problem with that, but they can’t do anything about it. Life goes on.
Pretty much the entire world (the Middle East included) would be furious with Iran. Is that going to be good for Iran?
That’s imaginary. It’s pretty much what Saddam was counting on, and we know how that worked out for him. (Twice.) It didn’t happen because none of his neighbors liked or trusted him either. I think you’d find that’s the case with Iran, too. But I don’t expect to find out.
If that were true, they wouldn’t be killing each other all over the place.
It’s a joke I’ve heard about untrained militaries over there. ‘Spray the bullets and pray you hit what you’re shooting at.’
It wouldn’t be my ass, but yes, you do seem to be spoiling for a fight a little. I don’t think you’d be pleased with the result if it did, but it’s not going to happen.
Iran has the right to peaceful uranium enrichment, provided it is in compliance with its other obligations. The UN Security Council unanimously found that Iran was not cooperating with the IAEA in 2005/2006, and Iran has not taken steps to resolve those issues. In fact, Iran was called out once again by the Security Council last fall for failing to do so.
Iran hasn’t lived up to its end of the bargain. You can’t have your pudding unless you eat your meat; Iran is not allowed to stiff-arm the IAEA as it pleases and still be in compliance with the NPT.
What gives you the right to decide what technology other countries can have?
Oh I forgot, its a God-given right.
Sorry about that!
Oh, I agree; just saying the walkout was bad form. It would have been better to stay, acknowledge whatever legitimate points Ahmadinejad might have, and then blast him for the noncooperation with other provisions.
You said that you have no love for Ahmadinejad, and I’m prepared to believe that. I’m getting an idea that you HATE something, though.
Forget it dudes, this Marmite person is only interested in spouting alot of BS propaganda about how glorious those ineffective guerilla and traditional Arab militaries are. This guy will just keep ignoring facts constantly in order to try and put their weak point across.
Let me put it plain and simple for you Marmite, Palestinians were offered a state much larger than today in 1948 by the UN, they rejected it, and arrogantly expected the Arab armies from the surrounding region to kick the Jews out and reconstitute the Palestinian state. They lost, you lost, and Palestinians suffer the consequences of that their glorious leadership took for them, which resulted in more death, more pain. So enjoy that pride, when it’s being targeted by a Helicopter gunship, since the Palestinian Guerilla groups which fight on their behalf cannot learn the art of compromise.
What about his speech ‘made perfect sense’ to you? Why do you feel that the US should have stayed for it?
While it doesn’t happen often, it happens, so I guess it’s viewed as normal enough.
Only by people who attempt to project individual behavior onto nation states. IOW, no and no.
Their individual views will be shaped by where their countries are wrt the issues and players. If they are aligned with the US then they will probably not think twice about it…if they are aligned with Iran then they will probably take some kind of official offense. If they are neutral then they probably don’t give a shit, as they have bigger fish to fry.
Why should she have?
Again, why should she have? Israel didn’t sign the NPT, and the existence of Israel nukes is completely unconfirmed. A lot of people THINK they have them, but they have never actually tested one, afaik, which leads me to believe that, barring them buying some under the table, they either don’t have them or they aren’t reliable, having never done the necessary testing. Regardless, as I said, they didn’t sign the NPT (and so never got the benefits associated with signing the treaty), so can’t really be held to them anyway.
Well, it seems to be a hijack of the discussion, so she was probably wise to move on to more important things, don’t you think?
Because she didn’t get side tracked into an irrelevant discussion and because the audience was, perhaps, to stupid to understand that? Well, gee…
(I’m no fan of Clinton, btw, but it sounds to me like she did exactly the right thing and deserves some kudos for not being stupidly sidetracked)
Who else would you suggest? China? Russia? The EU?
-XT
And yet it’s funny how you blame the US for supporting Egypt, but a few posts later you’re doing much the same.
As for numbers, quantity does not equal quality. For a demonstration of this, see every war Israel has been involved in except perhaps the Lebanon debacle in the 1980s as well as the first Gulf War and the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Arab militaries, (with the likely inclusion of Persian Iran) have a pretty poor reputation when it comes to the level of training and ability of their officers to anticipate and plan.
It just goes to show that actual evidence will never alter the views of brainwashed fanatics.
Its pretty much pointless trying to have a logical discussion with someone who admires Al Quida.