Wanting to start on a "project car"

[Unintentionally_Blank]

I’ve had smaller, higher-strung cars. The Miata is a great choice. It’s easy to overlook the work that went into it’s design. I could recommend you buy a miata, then spend your money on learning to DRIVE it. You’d be rewarded with a car that’s as quick as cars with twice the HP, and a much better idea of what a car can do around a track.

I’ve had an 87 Turbo RX-7, I’ve also had a 4 banger PT cruiser and now drive a Subaru STi.

My thoughts: The RX-7 was pretty far gone. The turbo bearings were going, there were a ton of vacuum leaks. But. An engine swap would be pretty easy, and returning it to stock performance with a new turbo and vacuum hoses would be a pretty good lesson. Further, a non-turbo '7, with new plugs, runs GREAT. But you won’t hit the 12’s with it, it’s just too old a car.

The Cruiser was fun in a driving a slow car fast kind of way. But it had no sporting pretensions whatsoever, and got BORING after awhile.

The Subaru is a real hoot. Dead nuts reliable and FAST. but do you want a car you just get in and drive? I bought it from a kid that riced it a little. Shaved all the emblems, swapped out the interior, put lowered springs on it. First thing I did was restore it to normal ride height. I hated the ‘bobblehead syndrome’. I like that it’s got the WRX spoiler and that it doesn’t advertise.

Your ultimate performance will be limited by your foundation. If you start with a strong sports car, you will spend more time MAKING power and less time finding the next weakest link.

Lastly, a high strung 4 cylinder (or wankel, for that matter) CAN make power, but at the expense of day to day drivability. HP is for bragging rights, but torque is for driving. Do you wanna brag, or drive?

[Superfreaknduper]

I’d love to do something like a classic mercedes or bmw but parts for those are $$$

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Unintentionally Blank

I’ve had smaller, higher-strung cars. The Miata is a great choice. It’s easy to overlook the work that went into it’s design. I could recommend you buy a miata, then spend your money on learning to DRIVE it. You’d be rewarded with a car that’s as quick as cars with twice the HP, and a much better idea of what a car can do around a track.

I’ve had an 87 Turbo RX-7, I’ve also had a 4 banger PT cruiser and now drive a Subaru STi.

My thoughts: The RX-7 was pretty far gone. The turbo bearings were going, there were a ton of vacuum leaks. But. An engine swap would be pretty easy, and returning it to stock performance with a new turbo and vacuum hoses would be a pretty good lesson. Further, a non-turbo '7, with new plugs, runs GREAT. But you won’t hit the 12’s with it, it’s just too old a car.

The Cruiser was fun in a driving a slow car fast kind of way. But it had no sporting pretensions whatsoever, and got BORING after awhile.

The Subaru is a real hoot. Dead nuts reliable and FAST. but do you want a car you just get in and drive? I bought it from a kid that riced it a little. Shaved all the emblems, swapped out the interior, put lowered springs on it. First thing I did was restore it to normal ride height. I hated the ‘bobblehead syndrome’. I like that it’s got the WRX spoiler and that it doesn’t advertise.

Your ultimate performance will be limited by your foundation. If you start with a strong sports car, you will spend more time MAKING power and less time finding the next weakest link.

Lastly, a high strung 4 cylinder (or wankel, for that matter) CAN make power, but at the expense of day to day drivability. HP is for bragging rights, but torque is for driving. Do you wanna brag, or drive?

Mostly true. I have a kid that works for me that has built a 1995 Civic almost from the ground up for the last two years, and I can tell ya, as a non-ricer fan, it’s a fast car. He put in a normally aspirated prelude engine that pumps about 220hp (remember this is a 2200lb car), has an intake, exhaust, custom fuel rail, overbored pistons, etc and I swear this little ricer will run low 13’s high 12’s easy.
Hondas are in my mind a good choice as a bang for buck selection given not only the hoard of parts avaialable due to relaitvely little changes in design for many years in the 1990’s but also the sheer breadth of aftermarket parts available as well as internet forums dedicated to ricers.
YouTube some Honda Civics with the K-series turbo sometime. Blowing away Camaro SS’s, etc. Ultimate sleeper cars, easy to work on, lots of parts available, etc.
I never liked those cars until I rode in one, and I’m an oldschool musclecar guy who’s favorite dreamride would be a completely restored 1967 Pontiac GTO, which would lose a straight-line race to this kid’s project car.

[zenith]

That Cadillac Controlled Differential is no doubt a variation of limited-slip.

Those things have friction clutch packs and the one in my '77 Cutlass was just as noisy as the one in my '62 Country Squire and several other Fords and GMs I owned produced between '62 and '77.

They make more noise if Jippy Lube uses the one-lube-fits-all-“good enough” stuff and not the real Limited Slip Lube.

[Superfreaknduper]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Mostly true. I have a kid that works for me that has built a 1995 Civic almost from the ground up for the last two years, and I can tell ya, as a non-ricer fan, it’s a fast car. He put in a normally aspirated prelude engine that pumps about 220hp (remember this is a 2200lb car), has an intake, exhaust, custom fuel rail, overbored pistons, etc and I swear this little ricer will run low 13’s high 12’s easy.
Hondas are in my mind a good choice as a bang for buck selection given not only the hoard of parts avaialable due to relaitvely little changes in design for many years in the 1990’s but also the sheer breadth of aftermarket parts available as well as internet forums dedicated to ricers.
YouTube some Honda Civics with the K-series turbo sometime. Blowing away Camaro SS’s, etc. Ultimate sleeper cars, easy to work on, lots of parts available, etc.
I never liked those cars until I rode in one, and I’m an oldschool musclecar guy who’s favorite dreamride would be a completely restored 1967 Pontiac GTO, which would lose a straight-line race to this kid’s project car.

I’ve thought of that, been pointed to a Mitsubishi GSX for that all-wheel drive and power. But I feel like (could be wrong) that a lot of the work on those is computer work and such, not stuff I could just walk to the garage and tinker around with on my own. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Just for further info, I’m looking to spend around $2500 on purchasing the car, and the 12’s is an end goal for the car, not a necessity or anything.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Mostly true. I have a kid that works for me that has built a 1995 Civic almost from the ground up for the last two years, and I can tell ya, as a non-ricer fan, it’s a fast car. He put in a normally aspirated prelude engine that pumps about 220hp (remember this is a 2200lb car), has an intake, exhaust, custom fuel rail, overbored pistons, etc and I swear this little ricer will run low 13’s high 12’s easy.
Hondas are in my mind a good choice as a bang for buck selection given not only the hoard of parts avaialable due to relaitvely little changes in design for many years in the 1990’s but also the sheer breadth of aftermarket parts available as well as internet forums dedicated to ricers.
YouTube some Honda Civics with the K-series turbo sometime. Blowing away Camaro SS’s, etc. Ultimate sleeper cars, easy to work on, lots of parts available, etc.
I never liked those cars until I rode in one, and I’m an oldschool musclecar guy who’s favorite dreamride would be a completely restored 1967 Pontiac GTO, which would lose a straight-line race to this kid’s project car.

To each their own, but I’ve found that while a car like that may be quick, it’s at the expense of drivability. An S2000 will rev to 9000 rpm…and makes NO torque unless you’re beating it like it owed you money. How much HP and How much torque don’t mean near as much as the area under the curve and the power to weight ratio.

If ultimate killer speed is a desire, then you look at motorcycles. They just can’t flat be beat. (Well, they can, and I can keep up with 750 cc bikes, but you know what I’m getting at.)

Anecdotally, I have a book. Hotrodding the Chevy Small Block by John Lingenfelter. he doesn’t talk engine stuff til about Chapter four. It’s more important to line up WHAT you want to do, then make the assumptions flow from there.

So. Do you want a 12 second ride? Do you want it to be a fun street car? Do you want it balanced? Pass Emissions? Quartermile above all else? Not break? ( )

Figure out the end goal, then take the steps to get there, otherwise, you’ll be disappointed.

My transmission guy is a Syclone/Typhoon nut (Turbo V6, all wheel drive). Up here (6500 feet), a properly tuned stock Syclone is a mid 12 second ride…but nobody tunes them. Instead they take their worn out 15 second Syclone, put a bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, and think they’re doing well turning 14’s. Then they put in a boost controller…and a bigger fuel pump…and an MSD ignition system.

Well, you know how it goes.

[Superfreaknduper]

@Unintentionally Blank

If ultimate killer speed is a desire, then you look at motorcycles. They just can’t flat be beat. (Well, they can, and I can keep up with 750 cc bikes, but you know what I’m getting at.)

Anecdotally, I have a book. Hotrodding the Chevy Small Block by John Lingenfelter. he doesn’t talk engine stuff til about Chapter four. It’s more important to line up WHAT you want to do, then make the assumptions flow from there.

So. Do you want a 12 second ride? Do you want it to be a fun street car? Do you want it balanced? Pass Emissions? Quartermile above all else? Not break? ( )

Figure out the end goal, then take the steps to get there, otherwise, you’ll be disappointed.

My transmission guy is a Syclone/Typhoon nut
Well, you know how it goes.

Killer speed isnt the answer but I’m looking for a fun to drive car that has some power…more so than my Ford focus. Quarter mile is at the end of the list, the 12 seconds is more of just a base to go off of for speed/power what not. I want it street legal so i can cruise around, and I’m not planning cross country trips in it, but I’m not looking for a car that gets driven 100 miles then is out for 2 months getting fixed up agin

[Superfreaknduper]

forgot to add I LOVE Sycolone/Typhoons… they are next to impossible to find though. atleast around here.

[Declan]

@Superfreaknduper

I do have a reasonable amount of tools at my disposal also, not a TON. But I’d say a decent to maybe a little below decent amount for a backyard mechanic

I’m sure that they are still around , but would a VW dune buggy be the start of your aspiring shade mechanical career.

Declan

[3acresandatruck]

@Superfreaknduper

Killer speed isnt the answer but I’m looking for a fun to drive car that has some power…more so than my Ford focus. Quarter mile is at the end of the list, the 12 seconds is more of just a base to go off of for speed/power what not. I want it street legal so i can cruise around, and I’m not planning cross country trips in it, but I’m not looking for a car that gets driven 100 miles then is out for 2 months getting fixed up agin

I think you were right on track with your original thoughts about Camaros/Firebirds and Mustangs. Since you’re willing to look at Camaros with 305 TBI engines to get a manual transmission, I’d consider Mustangs with a 5.0 and a 5-speed to be equivalent. So, I’m saying Camaros from the mid-80’s through 1992 or Mustangs from 1986 to 1993 would be equally fun and easy/hard to work on. Actually, I might even narrow it down to about 1989-up, due to improvements that were made as they went along. They aren’t new, but these cars seem as reliable as a rock to me. Fuel injection and electronic ignitions - sweet! Oceans-full of parts are available for both. Pick the one you like best.

Oh…if you get a Mustang, I hope you never have your heater core go out. I don’t know what to warn you about with Camaros.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

if you’re looking at 89 and newer GM, I’d also suggest Corvettes. Not because I’m biased, but because the prices at that end of the depreciation scale are nearly the same and you get a lot more car in the Corvette. Fully independent suspension, better engine, tranny, brakes, and power steering cooling, bigger tires…

There are a few things like the atari-dash that take a little research, but little cottage repair facilities exist for things like that.

I drove a V-6 Camaro and a late 80’s Corvette back to back and it was NO contest. You don’t like the newer camaros, and the older ones suck from a handling standpoint. If you have ANY pretensions for turning at the end of the quartermile, you’ll either have to MAKE the car handle ($$$), or buy one that handles in the first place.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

(After the edit)

I’ll add that transmissions are a non issue, in 89 GM released the ZF-6 and it’s hella-stout. the L-98 350 V8 isn’t particularly fast, but it makes a lot of torque and is fun on the street. (Just don’t race anything modern, you’ll lose.) speed parts are just as plentiful as the Camaro and access to the engine bay is better with that great big clamshell hood. The enthusiast community is quite a bit more active too. I looked at getting a two year old Camaro or a 6 year old Corvette when I bought mine. The enthusiast reponce from both mailing lists was: Buy the Vette.

[Necros]

@Unintentionally Blank

To each their own, but I’ve found that while a car like that may be quick, it’s at the expense of drivability. An S2000 will rev to 9000 rpm…and makes NO torque unless you’re beating it like it owed you money. How much HP and How much torque don’t mean near as much as the area under the curve and the power to weight ratio.

Man, you are just dissing all of my cars, aren’t you? S2000s, turbo RX7s… Torque isn’t everything, you know.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

Necros, Necros, Necros…you’re casually neglecting that I’m STILL driving a high strung turbo 4 banger riceburner and that I STARTED in a '7. It’s also easy to overlook that, while I like the big displacement stuff, when I need dependability, the daily driver’s full of rice.

But man does the STi fall on it’s nose if it’s not spinning enough at the stoplight.

[Superfreaknduper]

I’m a big fan of the small engine cars with a heap load of turbo. I just feel like with one of those I’d get less mechanical experience and more experience driving it to someone else to change the computer chip, or install a new turbo and such.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Making power with displacement requires that the WHOLE SHEBANG has to be set up for airflow. Build the motor, put on mufflers, but still leave the stock cat in place and you may not see the big gains you’re looking for.

Likewise, refrain from installing the ‘aquarim tank valve boost enhancer’ in a turbo car…unless you want to see what a lean condition does to pistons. Making power under boost takes a little learning too, even though it can compensate for things like intake manifold and exhaust restrictions.

Case in point: We dropped a supercharger on our otherwise stock Corvette. Normally, it would boost about 8 psi at sealevel. Up here, it would only boost to 5 psi. No big deal, put a smaller pulley, spin it a little harder and make more power, right? Well, kinda. Turns out sea-level boost needs sealevel OCTANE. The motor spent a lot of time in spark retard, getting hot and unhappy. While I most likely could have had it tuned for the additional boost, I didn’t want to spend the additional money to do so. It was just easiest swapping back in the pulley that came with the kit.

Moral of the story: If you change one thing, you’ve gotta plan on how it might effect the rest of the system.

[Superfreaknduper]

I’ve pretty much decided on getting a 90-92 Camaro Z-28 with a 305 TPI engine and a 5 speed trans… with plans to hit lotto and put a turbo in it. Thanks for all the input!