Wanting to start on a "project car"

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve decided that I’d really like to get a project type car to work on. I’m not very mechanically inclined, but I can follow walk-throughs on how to do things on cars and done some light work on them (changing oil, changing out shocks/struts, diverter valves, light body work) and I’m having trouble deciding what to get. After some thought and some light talking on mostly manufacturer specific and model specific forums I’ve come to think that anything with a small block chevy would be a good starter car (80’s camaros/trans ams, maybe a bit older ‘muscle car’), the mustangs a 5.0 they are everywhere and come by pretty cheap. My cousin owns a '06 VW GTI and is pushing for an early 90’s Jetta to work on, or an early Eclipse.

I’m looking for an unbiased (or mostly unbiased) onpinion as to what cars have the best cost of purchase to potential ratios as well as ease of work and ability to obtain new or decent condition used parts. All opinions welcome.

2

[QUOTE=Superfreaknduper]
I’m looking for an unbiased (or mostly unbiased) onpinion as to what cars have the best cost of purchase to potential ratios as well as ease of work and ability to obtain new or decent condition used parts. All opinions welcome.
[/QUOTE]

1970-82 Camaro/ Firebird will give you the best bang for your buck and a big engine bay relative to newer vehicles. Engines start out at 301 right up to 454/455 cubic inches.

Id say that for your purposes , the Camaro would be the one I’d go for. While there should be still a great number of cars to choose from , make sure that your preference will be a southern state vehicle that has not been in salt enviroment.
Declan

3

The GM F-body (Camaros and Firebirds) aren’t a bad suggestion. Personally, I’d lean toward a later one from the 3rd generation, which ran from 1982-1992. It still has the large engine bay of the earlier models. You can find one with a TPI 350 and a manual or automatic transmission, depending on your preference. (I’d go with a more recent car, even within those years). The problem with the 93-up F-bodies is that the engine extends back under the cowl, because of the windshield rake. Getting to things can be difficult.

Mustang 5.0’s aren’t bad either, but face it, a 350 in a Camaro is bigger than the 302 in a Mustang. So, depends on what you’re after. If you want a Mustang, it’s the '86 and up models that have the 5.0 vs the 302. The 5.0’s have a hydraulic roller cam and the EEC-IV port injection.

If you prefer a sedan or coupe to a ponycar, then you could use a GM A/G body much the same way as an F-body. (Think Chevy Malibu or Monte Carlo, Olds Cutlass, Pontiac LeMans, and Buick Regal - earlier ones, too, but I’d stick with the 1978-1987 models.) If you want to do engine swaps, you can put any GM small block or big block V8 in any of these cars. From Ford, any fox-chassis car shares a buttload of suspension and drivetrain parts with the Mustang: stuff like a Fairmont, Granada, the small LTDs. These cars can hold a 5.0, a 351W or even a 460.

Unless you can do bodywork, the most important way to save money is to get a car with a clean, solid body and frame.

4

I’ve been looking at/considering getting a Corvair.
They seem to be a tremendous value compared to may contemporary models. Parts are readily available, and there is a substantial community eager to provide support. You can get a flavor of what I’m talking about here.

5

My husband has been working on his 67 Mustang (which he is the original owner) for the better part of a decade. He is in constant trauma over it.

  1. The stuff he’s interested in is double the cost of the same stuff for a GM car.
  2. It’s very hard to find other guys who have done the same stuff (to bounce ideas off of).

GM cars seem to be everywhere, and parts seem to be in abundance, and affordable. If you’ve never done a car project before, this may be a good way to get your feet wet.

6

Another one - one of my golf buddies is VERY into older cars, and he says early '50s Chevys are fun to drive, cheap, and incredibly easy to find parts for.

7

You don’t say where you are, but I’d check the local laws on pollution control devices, inspections, etc. It’d be real easy to render your car unregisterable, undrivable, and unsaleable by making what are now prohibited mods. Ask me how I learned this 20 years ago.

There are a lot of arbitrary legal cateogries, and you may have free rein to replace the engine on a 72, as long as it’s not newer than, say, 74. Meanwhile, on a 76 engine swaps are flat illegal. Knowing all that before you go car shopping would be key.

As a rule of thumb, a car from before the pollution control device (“PCD”) era (ie mid 60s) is by far the simplest. The early PCD gear (ie late 70s) was hard to work on/around, not real reliable, and really got in the way. By the mid 90s you’re into cars you can’t really do engine work on without computers, custom tools, and the body of a contorsionist.

Ironically, you can rebuild the metal parts of a modern engine just as easily as you ever could. Renewing a timing chain or replacing main bearings on a 2008 is about the same as on a 1955, once the engine is out of the car.

But spark plugs, timing, fuel system, induction, all the off-block “light” stuff, has become the hard part, whereas back in my motor head days (roughly 1970-85), that was the easy & fun part.

8

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
I’ve been looking at/considering getting a Corvair.
They seem to be a tremendous value compared to may contemporary models. Parts are readily available, and there is a substantial community eager to provide support. You can get a flavor of what I’m talking about here.
[/QUOTE]

I also think the Corvair is a good value for a “classic car”. Parts are pretty easy and inexpensive to buy. I go to Clark’s Corvairs for parts; they also have some cars for sale. I have a '65 convertible that I bought for probably some of the same reasons Superfreaknduper is looking – a relatively easy project for someone not very mechanically inclined. I’ve learned a lot and had fun with it. It is not a show car by any stretch, but it looks good from 10 feet away, and I’ve probably sunk a total of $6000 into it, including the purchase price ($3K), a new top, new carpet, new upholstery on the front seats, some new trim, and parts for the mechanical work. The car has 85K miles on it. I would never rely on it for a daily driver, but it starts when I turn the key and drives well. And, I get a fair number of smiles, thumbs-up, and admiring glances when I cruise around in it.

I’m not one of those tedious Corvair cultists who can’t shut up about how Nader robbed us of a perfectly good car, but I’m having great fun with it.

(Although I’ve been thinking about selling it so I can take on a new project next year… I’ve been lusting after the Maverick Grabber lately.)

9

[QUOTE=LSLGuy]
You don’t say where you are, but I’d check the local laws on pollution control devices, inspections, etc. It’d be real easy to render your car unregisterable, undrivable, and unsaleable by making what are now prohibited mods. Ask me how I learned this 20 years ago.

There are a lot of arbitrary legal cateogries, and you may have free rein to replace the engine on a 72, as long as it’s not newer than, say, 74. Meanwhile, on a 76 engine swaps are flat illegal. Knowing all that before you go car shopping would be key.

As a rule of thumb, a car from before the pollution control device (“PCD”) era (ie mid 60s) is by far the simplest. The early PCD gear (ie late 70s) was hard to work on/around, not real reliable, and really got in the way. By the mid 90s you’re into cars you can’t really do engine work on without computers, custom tools, and the body of a contorsionist.

Ironically, you can rebuild the metal parts of a modern engine just as easily as you ever could. Renewing a timing chain or replacing main bearings on a 2008 is about the same as on a 1955, once the engine is out of the car.

But spark plugs, timing, fuel system, induction, all the off-block “light” stuff, has become the hard part, whereas back in my motor head days (roughly 1970-85), that was the easy & fun part.
[/QUOTE]

I thought I heard that a law went through that exempts certain (many) classic cars from today’s emissions laws.

10

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I thought I heard that a law went through that exempts certain (many) classic cars from today’s emissions laws.
[/QUOTE]

I believe it depends on the state/county. Here in Hamilton County, OH, there is no inspection of any kind for any car (which is probably why I was able to license my Corvair). In other places, the rules are quite a bit stricter.

11

[QUOTE=Bayard]
I believe it depends on the state/county.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it varies widely. For example, LSLGuy and I live under the same rules, but if I moved ten miles south of where I am, I’d have no pollution inspections at all. In addtion, as Kalhoun observed, a lot of vehicles are exempt by age (2 or 3 of mine are exempt; I’m uncertain about the '85, but it’s under repair at the moment so it’s a moot point). The cutoff point for age exemption is typically standard for an entire state, but varies from one state to another. Oh, and sometimes it will specify a year, like ‘all 1985 and earlier vehicles’. Sometimes it’s a rolling cutoff, like ‘all vehicles at least 21 years old’. If anyone wants to do engine swapping, the first question nowadays is “what county and state do you live in?”.

12

[QUOTE=3acresandatruck]
Yes, it varies widely. For example, LSLGuy and I live under the same rules, but if I moved ten miles south of where I am, I’d have no pollution inspections at all.
[/QUOTE]

Slight hijack – I’m hoping to move to St. Louis next year. Do you know if I have free reign to swap an engine in a pre-1975 car in St. Louis City/County? Would I have to pass emissions?

13

[QUOTE=Bayard]
Slight hijack – I’m hoping to move to St. Louis next year. Do you know if I have free reign to swap an engine in a pre-1975 car in St. Louis City/County? Would I have to pass emissions?
[/QUOTE]

Never mind on the emissions question – I just looked it up (cars older than '95 are exempt in MO).

14

[QUOTE=Bayard]
I have a '65 convertible …
[/QUOTE]

Care to post a pic?

Hang on to it for another year or so, and I might be willing and able to take it off your hands! I’m thinking 65-69 vert or coupe, but when I get down to it I hope to simply get the car with the most solid/rust-free body and most dependeble mechanics I can find - whatever the year and model.

15

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Care to post a pic?

Hang on to it for another year or so, and I might be willing and able to take it off your hands! I’m thinking 65-69 vert or coupe, but when I get down to it I hope to simply get the car with the most solid/rust-free body and most dependeble mechanics I can find - whatever the year and model.
[/QUOTE]

I happen to have my personal laptop with me at work today, so here are several. PM me if you want any more details. I was thinking of selling it next spring. If you’re still interested then, let me know.

16

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I thought I heard that a law went through that exempts certain (many) classic cars from today’s emissions laws.
[/QUOTE]

Here in California, home of the nation’s most stringent air pollution laws, cars manufactured in 1975 and older are exempt from emission laws. I’m a huge fan of air cooled VW’s as a vehicle for learning to work on cars. Any idiot can work on them, and I’m proof of that. Ferdinand Porsche specifically designed the VW to be worked on by your average backyard shade tree mechanic. There’s a ton of space to work on the mechanicals and you only need a very small number of tools to get started. Plus, there is the bible of simple Volkswagen repair.

17

Two words:
Factory Five
Why mess with a 5.0 in a Mustang when you can put it in a Cobra?

18

I am you with 10 years experience. What I’ve learned:

  1. it will never EVER be done. Enjoy it now and every time you work on it…then enjoy it when you drive it…remind yourself to enjoy it when it breaks. Took me years to realize this.

  2. You will never EVER get even a percentage of the money back. I bought a high mile $15,000 Corvette. I figure I’ve put at LEAST $20,000 into it. I’ve worked on it most of the last 10 years, driven it 8000 miles in that time, and it’s worth about $10,000…but only to a very restrictive audience. See:

  3. Engine, Interior, Exterior…you will most likely only have the energy to do two of the three. You can cut corners if you find someone else’s project where they’ve already done one of the three. My car is mechanically brand new under the paint, but the exterior and interior are crap. I kinda like it that way. I’m not worried about where I park it, and I’m in no hurrt to drop $5k on paint and a new top.

  4. If you want to show the end result in a carshow, know that there are many people out there with more money who PAY someone ELSE to build them an award winner. The most sane thing you can do is not play those games.

It’s kinda wierd to have a stable. We have a supercharged 98 Corvette, a stroker 89 Corvete and a 66 Cadillac hearse…when you have more vehicles, the odds of having them all broken at the same time increases dramatically.

19

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
We have a supercharged 98 Corvette, a stroker 89 Corvete and a 66 Cadillac hearse.
[/QUOTE]

My bold.

You are now, in my eyes, the coolest poster on the Dope. When I was a kid, I looked at a 66 Cadillac ambulance, which I believe was pretty similar to the hearse (in both form and function, from what I know of 60’s EMT technology). Anyway, it was awesome, and I had to have it. Until my insurance company told me what a 16 year old male would have to pay to carry insurance on a 66 Cadillac ambulance. I think I could have bought the car for something like $600, but the insurance would have been like $1200 every six months (liability only!). So, I wound up with a '67 Rambler American 4-door, which was also awesome, but damn, I wanted the meat wagon.

20

:smiley: The hard part wasn’t finding the Hearse…the hard part was finding one that hadn’t been owned by a band.

I’ve gotta say, the difference in people in a Corvette club vs. the folks in a Professional Car club is pretty diverse.

(pssst: http://www.millertwinracing.com/BelfrysBest/ )