Georgia has re-opened a border battle with Tennessee. It claims it’s running out of water and the Tennessee River is just down the road a bit and oh yeah, its ours. Map detail here.
One military analysis gives the shooting match, should it come to that, to Tennessee.
When was the last time a state made a move on another state’s boundaries?
Doesn’t the Supreme Court have a say in it?
Whither the Union?
Yep, disputes between states are part of the Supreme Court’s original jurisidiction (meaning SCOTUS is both the trial and the appeals court). In practice they appoint a special master rather than conduct the trial themselves and then asses his ruling in a manner similair to an appeals court.
California and Nevada had a boundary dispute since like forever. But according to some quick googling, it looks like SCOTUS settled things for them in 1980.
The Colorful History of the California/Nevada State Boundary (Largish and colorful PDF, 4.4 MB).
Georgia can go fuck itself. It wouldn’t be running out of water if it would get control of metro Atlanta. They’ve already talked the US Corp of Engineers into letting them kill Appalachicola Bay in Florida (through draining Lake Lanier and taking water from a key waterway that feeds into Florida.
They’re using up everyone’s water so that they can have green lawns.
Where are the documents that have precise definitions of where the state borders are? I assume there are some kinds of metes and bounds described somewhere but my search so far has been in vain.
Even if the border should theoretically be several miles further north, the fact that the territory has been under the control of Tennessee since colonial times means that Georgia is outta luck, IMHO. I believe there is precedent for this, and there is a general understanding that the “real” border sometimes doesn’t line up with the border on paper. The fact that this is a blatant water grab only further erodes Georgia’s claim, since there is an obvious ulterior motive at play. It’s like how California tries to divert every drop of water to the LA area. At some point, the surrounding states simply have to stand up and say “Fuck you. Learn to live within your means.”
There’s a brief analysis of the situation here. I haven’t been able to find any confirmation of the previous border dispute he mentions betwen TN & MS, by the way; if anyone knows more about this I’d be interested to see it.
There was the Toledo war (1835-1836) between Ohio and Michigan over the ownership of the city. Ohio lost.
Actually, the non-yet-state of Wisconsin lost since the upper peninsula was given to Michigan in recompense.
Within the past couple decades there was a dispute between NJ and NY over the ownership of Ellis Island. As described above, SCOTUS appointed a special master who made a recommendation that SCOTUS accepted. IIRC, they split the island.
I wonder whether there will ever be a dispute between DE and NJ over the ownership of a few acres on the Jersey side of the Delaware. They are landfill, but for some reason the boundary between those states is at the Jersey bank, rather than mid-river. So when the landfill was added, it was on the Delaware side. I don’t think they make any attempt to assert ownership. If someone built a house there and then wanted to send their kids to school, DE would have to pay NJ to take them. Doesn’t sound like there is anything in it for DE.
There was relatively recently a border dispute between IL and KY.
Article is worth a read just to remind one how far southern Illinois is from Chicago! 
Georgian Here.
This isn’t something that just started again this week - this has been on and off for the past 3-4 years at the minimum. I expect we’ll see more of this across the US as population grows (even in this thread, we’ve had people point out how LA sucks water.)
When I try to view the map detail I get a 403 forbidden error, but from what I remember the difference is incredibly small. It’s the kind of difference that is within the known error bound of surveying back in 1800. Personally, I feel Tennessee has had the legal right to that strip of land on the basis that possession is 9/10th of the law. (I am sure some lawyer’s heads exploded there).
I’m rather amused by Diceman’s claim of “The fact that this is a blatant water grab only further erodes Georgia’s claim, since there is an obvious ulterior motive at play.” I mean, no shit. People sue for obvious ulterior motives all the freaking time. That doesn’t mean they have a bad case (ok, GA probably does have a bad case, but in general it’s silly to think an ulterior motive is a reason for throwing out a lawsuit).
I will make one point in GA’s favor. Metro Atlanta has 5.2M people. TN has 6.5M people total. Of course Georgia is going to need more water. The state population (9.9M) is 50% larger than Tennessees.
I’m also a little miffed at the “live within your means” rhetoric. You mean, unlike the water restrictions we have every summer for as long as I can remember? Unlike the reseveroirs we want to build? Being in drought conditions isn’t helping. I’m sure there is room for improvement in waste, but it’s not like we run a hose into a drain for the hell of it. (Not to mention that wired article that just wanted to dog on crappy Georgia with it’s stupid rednecks. Good thing journalists try to keep bias out of their writing :rolleyes: )
I don’t think GA will win this lawsuit, and I don’t think GA should win this lawsuit, but the state is desperate for water, can you blame them for trying the longshots in addition to everything else (excluding when our idiot previous governor hosted “pray for rain at the capital” a few days back).
Determining precise boundary information for the Atlantic coast states can be a mess. New Jersey and Delaware have gone to the Supreme Court three times. In the 2008 case, the Court noted that the suit involved “tracing title through a series of deeds originating with a 1682 grant from the Duke of York to William Penn”.
My biggest concern about the whole thing is what will happen to the water levels downstream if Georgia starts sucking millions (billions?) of gallons per year out of the system. They will be tying in to the Tennessee River just south of Chattanooga and diverting a “Metric Buttload” of water to feed Atlanta. Now, has anybody ever heard of the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway that is a major shipping route for a whole bunch of bulk goods? What effect will Georgia’s water grab have on that? And further downstream, the Tennessee River ultimately joins with the Ohio River which feeds into the Mississippi River, which is another key shipping route. Look at what has been happening to the barge traffic on the Mississippi with the drought the past few years. Do we really want to exacerbate that problem? Looking back at the Colorado River and everybody who has tapped into it for their water supply, it doesn’t even make it to the ocean any more. Do we want to let that happen to the Tennessee & Mississippi River systems?
As a native Toledoan, born and bred, I take GREAT offense at the implication that Ohio lost the “Toledo War.” It is a tough, rough, old industrial city with an amazing history of immigration, boom, bust, socialism, growth and retreat. It is full of proud, hard-working, good people. It is not a tourist destination, but it is my home, and the home of my family, and a great many of my friends. Good, solid hard-working, generous people, just like their city.
Have you been to the Toledo Museum of Art? The Zoo? Both are world-class institutions- literally world-class. The Downtown Library- a WPA masterpiece? Tony Packo’s? 5/3 field, home of the Mud-Hens? It is the largest grain-exporting port in the world, and one of the largest transportation hubs in the North Eastern US.
I love my hometown. Detroiters love theirs. Buffaloans, Clevelanders, San Franciscans, New Yorkers, Bostonians love theirs.
Ohio won the Toledo War- which was fought because the surveyors of Ohio’s norhern boundary had difficulty in getting the proper line drawn theough the impenetrable Great Black Swamp. When the state decided to build Canals in order to open the western side of the state to white settlement (w/o transportation to get goods to market, settlement was pointless) the northern terminus had to be at Toledo. Clarifying that the site of the City was, and always had been Ohio (MI tried to grab the land in order to get the revenues from the canal) was a major victory, and secured the building of the canal, the opening of settlement, and the tax revenues from the economic development of the now important City, which seems fair, as the state built the canals that enabled the boom.
As far as the topic at hand goes… well GA is S-O-L. The Union would not allow such conflict to happen, and the issues of the Border (defined in the state constitutions as approved by Congress) are pretty well dead letter.
[quote=“Hari_Seldon, post:8, topic:654605”]
There was the Toledo war (1835-1836) between Ohio and Michigan over the ownership of the city. Ohio lost./QUOTE]
ISWYDT.
I like Toledo, even though it’s in Ohio. We had a project near the Ohio border so we decided to have lunch at Corporal Klinger’s favorite restaurant. Nice place.
The border war was a win-win. Ohio got Toledo, Michigan got the UP. If anyone lost, it would have been Wisconsin which otherwise would have gained the UP.
Not at all- it’s called “adverse possession”.
Very interesting article. If true, I’d say Georgia made a mistake in being so reasonable at the start. They should have demanded the entire swath of land south of the 35th parallel, then conceded the parts they don’t care about and compromised with a smaller piece to give access to the river.
[QUOTE=Diceman;]
It’s like how California tries to divert every drop of water to the LA area.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. It’s been years since I’ve seen this amazingly stupid and ignorant claim. Guess what, the overwhelming majority of CA water goes to agriculture in the Central Valley. If LA ceased to exist, it wouldn’t make much of a dent in CA’s water usage.
As I understand it, in cases like this it doesn’t matter if the monuments on the ground are not precisely on the parallel they were supposed to be. It’s the marks on the ground that take precedence, and the borders of US states are generally pretty clearly marked with survey markers, monuments etc.
John Denver thinks otherwise. 
