Re: OP
Daaaayummm! Talk about being “on!” I want some of what this guy had for breakfast! If ever you doubted the reality of “berserking” here’s your proof–you can’t train this kind of response, it is instinctive. Can you imagine how long it took to calm this guy down after the battle?
[hijack]I’m sorry, Mr. Moto, please understand, I hold you in the highest respect, but I couldn’t let this one go. I can’t WAIT to see what Kerry’s interns look like! [/hijack]
Damn Freudian misspellings! 
I would also like to see our government list the women and men who have been injured in non-combat related situations. Some of them have been very critically injured in vechicle roll-overs, for example, in Iraq and yet their names are not listed. There are some 5,000 of these troops.
Although they did not demostrate the courage under fire that the OP describes, there is another courage that requires that those in service to their country get out of bed and put one foot in front of the other day after day after day with no certain end in sight.
When they are so severely injured that they must return home, they are also deserving of some mention. I hope the Pentagon has changed its policy and has begun paying tribute to them also.
I am a pacifist who greatly admires courage whether it is putting one’s life at great risk for one’s country or speaking out when one believes the issue is crucial.
I don’t know WHERE the hell muffin’s coming from, but WOW. Just wow. I think the only way he could have improved upon what he did would be to, I don’t know, save a baby and a cute kitten in the process.
That is really impressive.
Wonder what he was thinking a few hours later.
Probably something along the lines of :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I have served with and known men who received combat decorations. I have served with and known men who have declined combat decorations. I have served with and known men who earned combat decorations and should have received them but did not. All honor to Lieutenant Chontosh. We expect nothing less of our armed forces than the consistent and faithful performance of duty and of our young combat leaders than resourcefulness and initiative. Lieutenant Chontosh did his duty in and exemplary fashion.
My bitch, however, is not that men were killed, not that war is immoral, not that innocents suffer, not that the whole thing is an obscenely that once experienced will never be lusted for again. My bitch is that the foreign adventure in which Lieutenant Chontosh so admirably served is an unnecessary adventure that has cost my country dear in lives, treasure and credibility far in excess of what Lieutenant Chontosh’s gallantry and courage, and that of thousands of other young soldiers, sailors aircrew and Marines, ever will gain. The courage and sacrifice of thousands like this young Marine officer will not, cannot, make this effort noble, as noble as they might be individually and collectively. One can serve a bad cause well.
I agree that now-Capt. Chontosh was unquestionably brave, and his leadership and courage are, indeed, noteworthy.
However, I can also see why the press might choose not to make a big deal out of incidents such as these. As it is, our presence in Iraq is not looked upon favorably by a good many countries. Pronouncing such individuals as heroes, openly, right now, would likely be viewed as glorifying the killing (rather than the bravery), and could very easily be misconstrued as yee-hawing over body counts. I’m not by any means stating that that’s how I see things, but I have no difficulty believing that others may well see it that way.
Eventually, the press may acknowledge such individuals openly, but I think things are still too “hot” for them to do so now.
While in Iraq, I received a citation for bravery, ARCOM W/ “V” Device. (When I left the OEF theatre of Operations, 167 ARCOM W/ “V” Devices had been given out.) I know what it feels like and means to receive such a citation, but when incidents of combat happen, not a single soldier is thinking about receiving medals or citations. You are thinking about saving lives. Your life, your soldiers’ lives, and civilian lives. This is exactly what CPT Brian Chontosh did, and this is why he received the citation. Acts of bravery like this build morale and give young soldiers something to strive to be, not necessary a war hero but a brave individual. This is why I commend CPT Chontosh. Thank you, Sir, for serving your country, your troops and the Iraqi People.
Ever seen The Adventures of Baron Von Munchausen? Your post is funny with respect to that film. Otherwise agreeable.
Daaaamn. The Navy Cross is nice and all, but what he really deserves is the wallet with Bad Mother Fucker on it.
… and by “he” I mean Lt. Supreme Badass over there. Not muffin.
Pretty cool Mr. Moto. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Wow. Up until now, I’ve always thought of junior U.S. military officers as overeducated, undertrained wimps - which is how they’ve been portrayed in 99% of all movies and TV shows over the past 30 years. Guess I was wrong.
It’s hard on the soldiers who end up in places & situations like Vietnam and Iraq. They still get shot at, and still need to rise to the occasion (and/or still get injured or killed, too, unfortunately), but then there’s this pall of ambivalence cast over even their bravest actions because the overall enterprise is considered by so many to be a giant mistake.
I do think that Iraq is an atrocity, and my own country an immoral aggressor, but the American soldiers who are over there getting shot at and doing what duty requires of them weren’t consulted before the decision was made to invade, and it’s not fair to people like Brian Chontosh to consider them anything less than heroes.
My husband is in Afganistan. Blah blah blah - I won’t bore you with the details of how difficult this has been for us both - but I’m scared. I’ll be scared 24/7 until he comes home.
He’s doing the job he’s been training to do for our country for 16 years. He didn’t have the option to opt-out if he didn’t agree with our reasons for being there. He doesn’t get to choose to go if its a ‘moral’ war and not go if its an ‘immoral’ war. He goes and does his job. If we’re both lucky (and he stays on his toes), he gets to come home when he’s done.
So, Muffin, please keep that in mind before you start trashing soldiers. They have a job to do. Some of them are forced into situations that require they do that job exceptionally well just to survive. I spend a lot of time bargaining with the universe that withaK will never end up in one.
P.S. - Thank you for this and the future threads you’ve promised, Mr. Moto.
Dryfreeze - Thank you for your service to your country and the cause of freedom.
sperfur - your husband, and all our servicemen and women, are daily in my prayers. May God bring him home safe to you.
Those are our guys over there getting shot at. My nephew is one of them. And he recently received his second Bronze Star.
God bless them all. And God bless America.
Regards,
Shodan
Wow! That’s video game stuff without the reset button! While I don’t support this war I have always supported our troops. Good show.
Wolfian, that is what I was thinking.
You think this guy plays HALO a lot?
Dryfreeze, thanks from me as well.
You’ll get a few drinks on me, if we ever meet up.
What good purpose will that serve, Mr. Moto?
Firstly, this citation for bravery doesn’t stand on its own outside of consideration of the situation under which it occurred. Trying to do that gives us only this: Lt. Chontosh was cited for killing 20 people. This is not in itself a brave act; others have earned the label “serial killer” and been jailed for life or executed for chalking up smaller body counts. In order to make it at the very least understandable, we have to clarify it: Lt. Chontosh was cited for killing 20 people while in military combat.
This, in turn, points to the obvious fact that Lt. Chontosh is serving in the military during wartime. (Well, perhaps not even that - Bush did declare the cessation of hostilities quite a while ago.) One of the objects of war is, of course, to kill people. So yes, a government prosecuting a war is going to cite members of its country’s military, or the military of allied countries, that excel in that particular objective. C’est la guerre.
What I find troubling, however, is the apparent willingness to celebrate what in most other circumstances would be viewed as a horrendous and execrable act. You said
which leads me to wonder if you support this war or not. If you do, then there is really nothing more to be said.
If you do not, however, your intent to continue broadcasting the citations for bravery, which include but are not completely comprised of mass killings (and let’s not mince words here; wartime or no, 20 dead in one sitting is a mass killing), makes no sense whatsoever. If you oppose the war, it would seem more justified to spend your energy in ensuring it comes to a quick end. Even to say “I oppose the war, but there’s nothing I can do about it so I’ll just try to lump along until it does end” is understandable, although I strongly disagree with it. But to say “Here, see what our boys in uniform are doing” and to promote this as a good thing in a war which you can’t even bring yourself to agree with is contradictory. On the one hand, there is the claim that the war has no justification; on the other, there is an action which has at its base the assertion that the war is somehow necessary and this justifiable. Why try to show the world that US troops are doing a good job at something they shouldn’t be doing in the first place?
Despite my harsh language in describing the incident, let me make it crystal clear that I do not blame Lt. Chontosh for being a soldier in a war zone and conducting himself as a soldier in a war zone is compelled to do. But IMO, the bravest thing those men and women could do is to lay down their arms (as close to en masse as possible) and tell their superior officers “We’re not going to get ourselves killed or wounded for this lie anymore. Send us home now.”