Completely unrealistic. More like, “Send us to jail now.”
And don’t you dare tell me that my husband isn’t brave because he followed orders and went to fight this war/conflict/power struggle/bullshit. :mad:
My husband is one of the bravest men I know and although it tears me up inside to have him gone, I couldn’t be more proud of him.
sperfur, when I offer an opinion on what I think would be a brave act (and what is not brave, if not risking punishment for speaking your mind?), that does not mean I think anything else but that is not bravery.
Right. They’ll do that the day after I become a Democrat. :eek: 
I had the opportunity to have dinner with Capt. Chontosh a few weeks ago with some friends. We found him to be a very nice, soft-spoken young man who downplays his role in this conflict, instead heaping praise upon his fellow soldiers. His wife was with us and by this time they should have a new baby.
I should have pictures up on my website soon. Any interest in seeing pictures of Capt. Chontosh?
Thank you, Olentzero, for the clarification. This subject hits close to home (one reason I try to stay out of these threads) and whenever I see someone who might be trashing withaK, I get a wee bit overprotective.
Sorry I flew off the handle.
sperfur, I can understand your reaction. The last thing I’m trying to do is point fingers in the wrong direction (or start a debate on the justifiability of this particular war and occupation). What I’m trying to do is clarify Mr. Moto’s attitude to the war and, if he opposes it, point out the contradictions between his beliefs and his actions as they present themselves to me.
I’d also like to say that just because people haven’t been convinced of the necessity of an action doesn’t mean they’re any less brave for not doing it.
Rico, would you mind providing cites as to how many soldiers were executed as a result of refusing to fight while in Vietnam? My understanding of the situation is that the mutiny was so widespread, nothing effective could be done about it. A similar situation is not impossible in Iraq, should the resistance prove to be as stiff.
Oh, I think this citation stands quite well on its own, Olentzero.
And I’m posting it because nobody else is. And I’m not talking about this message board. Our society is ignoring Brian Chontosh.
The Washington Post has not mentioned him at all yet. Neither has the Los Angeles Times. The websites for CBS, NBC and ABC News have no mention of him. Neither does CNN’s website.
I was able to find stories about Brian Chontosh in the military press and on Fox News. I don’t think anybody here will think that that’s extensive coverage of this genuine heroes.
I think courage under fire is a proper subjuct of discussion. In Brian Chontosh’s case, I don’t feel it’s a proper topic of debate. If you want to discuss this line further, please open a new thread, and like to it here.
Sorry. Link to it here.
Nah, I’ve said my piece. You feel it’s not a proper topic of debate, so there’s little likelihood you’d show up to contribute in a thread I start on the subject. Done and done.
Oh, I would. Please note, though, this isn’t a forum for debates.
That’s why I chose to post the citations here.
No American soldier has been sentenced to death for desertion since World War II.
But the penalties are written in the UCMJ.
There are many cites available to the number of soldiers in Vietnam who refused combat or deserted. It’s estimated at 17%. There’s also a cite from the BBC that “thousands of men refused to join the army” in World War I.
There will always be the dissenters. No matter what the conflict.
But it’s interesting that the only defense I could find in my limited Googling for the 17 Iraq deserters was in The US Socialist Worker (scroll to bottom of article for attribution).
Lt Chontosh deserves and has my highest regards for his courageous actions under fire. But I also feel some sympathy for his driver who apparently was fighting right there alongside Lt Chontosh but didn’t even get his name mentioned in dispatch.
Nice to see my organization’s paper is getting read. What do you mean by “interesting”, though? That the defense of dissenters is somehow wrong because it’s taken up by socialists?
Three other members of the unit were decorated for bravery, according to news reports I’ve read.
It’s hard getting names, though. As I said, mainstream media is not reporting this. And the military press requires registration.
When I go to work on Monday, I’ll see if there are any mentions of the story in the Navy Times. If there is, I’ll get you a name.
correct me if this quote has been taken wrongfully out of context or whatever, but are you suggesting mutiny as a viable option where other, legal recourse presumably exists? or has the system so failed that such an action can be taken morally? surely this is not an example of democracy in motion?
If other legal recourse exists to ending the occupation and bringing the troops home, by all means the military personnel stationed in Iraq should take it. Failing that, yes. I am suggesting mutiny.
Which would constitute bravery, indeed, don’t you think?
I am assuming that you are being purposely obtuse to make a point. We will not mutiny because we believe in what we are doing. Should be pretty obvious that those of us who wear the uniform do so for a reason. No one was drafted and no one was shanghaied. Please remove any further debate and take it to GD before I forget this isn’t the Pit and tell you to fuck off. I would hate to be spanked by a mod.
I thought I was your bitch.
Mmmmmmmm. There are several mods who can spank me anytime they like.