I’m sorry if this has already been discussed, I’ve been gone for about 4 weeks, so I’m still trying to catch up on all of the news and threads.
Anyway, if the USA and others are going to do a War on Terrorists, will that include the IRA? Will US Naval carriers be sitting off of the North Ireland coast, strategically taking out IRA positions with cruise missiles? What about the assets issue? I heard one UK person say that if they are going to freeze terrorist assets, then quite a few accounts in the Boston area should be frozen.
I’m sure this could segue into many other ‘terrorist’ organizations, but I’d like to know more about the IRA first. Car bombs, assasinations, Columbian drug-lord ties, terrorist training camps, etc. It seems like these guys should be #2 on the list.
Since the IRA have been operating for so many years, “in broad daylight”, I’d like to see what will happen in regard to their operations. If Great Britain is as committed as they say they are to rooting out terrorism, what of the IRA?
I would think that the IRA is not a direct target for the US becasue they never (AFAIK) target us. But what will Tony Blair do? What should he do?
Is there currently some sort of argeement in place, that has stopped or reduced the violence?
The IRA are not currently on the US State Department’s list of proscribed terrorist groups, because they have been on ceasefire since 1997. If that ceasefire ends they may well be added to the list. (The dissident Real IRA are already on it.) I can’t really see the US government taking any kind of military action against them, though. The political fallout would be huge and I doubt the UK government would welcome the interference either.
Thank you, Tomcat, for publicly posting something I’ve privately been asking my friends and family for some time now - would we take them out too? Or do those weird militias we have here in Montana and such count as terrorists? If they did, would we wage war on them, too?
My bets? No - because the above look like us. Arabs look a little bit different than us, worship differently, and dress differently too, so it’s a lot easier to hate them and wish for their destruction. It’s Snickers’ patented “look like us” theory, and it’s yet to be disproven. How I wish that it will be.
War on terrorism? Utter foolishness. And it will likely be as successful as the War on Drugs. But thanks for the question - I await the responses.
Snicks
I’ve been looking for cite but can’t find one yet.
IIRC the terrorist groups that will be targeted are only those that export their terrorism. Terrorist groups in your own country are therefore that particular country’s problem.
So, white supremicist groups and the like in the US will be handled strictly by US law unforcement and not by an international coalition.
I’m not sure where the IRA falls in this. I guess they are technically Ireland attacking England so there may be an international component here but I’m not sure. Do IRA terrorists live in northern Ireland hence making it a strictly British problem? I don’t know.
#3 would seem to rule the IRA out. However, there’s actually a couple of questions about them in the FAQ on the same page. It specifically states that the IRA are not on the list because they are on ceasefire, but may be put on it if the ceasefire ends.
Where possible the preferred option seems to be to seek a diplomatic solution if at all possible.
The US appear to be using the threat of military force as almost a ‘last resort’ - the (admirable) display of US restraint in Afgahnistan thus far would seem to bear this out…?
There is a peace process in N. Ireland - admittedly it’s slow and painful going, but steps are being made in the right direction and anything has to be better than shooting people.
If the IRA and their political supporters were to abandon any and all attempts at political dialogue and resume a concerted terror campaign on the British mainland, then (especially in the light of Sept. 11) the gloves might well come off from the British government. And if Blair were to seek support from the US I am sure they would help out (with intelligence etc. perhaps).
I have a feeling that the IRA are going to be very wary of any more “spectacular” attacks like Manchester or Omagh. They will probably keep it to assasinations and intimidation, which is just as despicable but which won’t raise the British ire to as great a degree.
If the IRA blew up a US embassy, on the other hand, then they would be toast pretty darn quick.
Timoty McVeigh? Till the WTC attacks I think he managed the greatest single act of terror on US soil and instantly became the leading mass-murderer in US history.
I also seem to recall a story on some militia guy who managed to order anthrax throught the mail using a false identity. Fortunately the FBI got him before he got the anthrax but it is still scary (not least of which was the realization that you could actually send anthrax via the mail).
The US has also had homegrown terrorists in the past. The anarchists of the early 1900’s come to mind (didn’t they assassinate President McKinley?).
Anyway, my point is the US has had and does have homegrown terrorists.
And there’s no way in hell the IRA (or even any of the dissident groups) would ever bomb a US embassy. Their reliance on support from American citizens is too great.
Sure we have plenty of our own, but on what do you base your assertion that they would not be dealt with if they commit any terrorist acts? If I remember correctly, several of the “militia groups” were being watched and onvestigated just for being Militia Groups. What was the incident with the Freemen all about? Did they commit any torrorist acts? I think they stockpiled weapons, and were asked to stop (he,he).
I’m not sure you have a leg to stand on with that arguement.
I was merely responding to an earlier post that suggested we don’t have much to worry about from homegrown terrorists.
Of course the US will go after its own terrorists. The question was will the US aid in attacks on the IRA or other similar groups (so by extension would Great Britain aid the US in attacks on white supremicist groups in the US).
I was merely pointing out that unless a terrorist group exports its attacks (ala Al’Queda) the world will not take action against them. The US is, of course, free to chase down its own terrorists as it sees fit on its own time and its own dollar.
The only real question I see is if the IRA counts as a terrorist group that exports its violence to another country. I’m not sure about the answer to that.
I seem to recall that all pronouncements have been careful to make sure that domestic terrorism like the IRA and the Basques are not what is being targeted. Those terrorists who “export” their terror are the concern. Aside from the US own doemstic terrorists of course.
As far as the British are concerned, a Northern Irish terrorist who plants a bomb on the UK mainland is attacking the same country…
The whole point is that the IRA wish that a bomb planted on the British mainland is an attack on somewhere foreign - because Britain and N. Ireland would be separate nations once again.
It’s the British themselves who are unable to argue that the terrorists are crossing international borders, cos that would admit that N. Ireland is not part of the UK!
It’s a bit easier in the case of the Real IRA, because they’re based here in the Republic. Unquestionably their attacks in England have involved crossing international borders.
Note that they’re talking about going on ceasefire now too.
It was Snickers who initially said we would not go after our own terrorists. You simply added a few facts about McVeigh, and I quoted you, meaning to question Snickers.
Snickers, why do you say we would not go after them? Based on what?
Look, the reality is that many of these terrorist organizations help each other out. We have evidence that the IRA has relations with FARC in Columbia, and the IRA has had links to various Middle East terrorist groups.
But I imagine that the IRA is going to be very very very careful about such associations in the future. Right now they aren’t terrorists anymore. If they do something silly then they start being terrorists again. And I imagine all that US funding is suddenly going to dry up. All those Irish Americans in Boston and New York aren’t going to be so easy to hit up for money to plant bombs in British pubs anymore.
And ALSO, remember that a “War on Terrorism” doesn’t mean that we must ALWAYS use airstrikes and special forces commando raids. It also means shutting down the networks, arresting people, freezing assets, shutting down corrupt offshore banks, increased airport security, and anti-terrorist propaganda.
My prediction is that the IRA is going to stop being a terrorist organization because they will be afraid of what might happen if they don’t. Which is a good thing.
Getting back to the OP. Homegrown terrorists like Mcvey and militias are an American problem. The Palestinian protests are an Israeli problem. The IRA is a UK problem. And the Taliban is an Afghan problem. And so on.
It becomes an INTERNATIONAL problem when the IRA is being supplied with foreign money or terrorists use other countries as their hideouts.
No, the US is probably not going to give military support to the British to take out the IRS (presuming they are still terrorizing). The British can probably handle that themselves. Where America would come in is in making sure IRA terorists aren’t receiving money from American sources and that they couldn’t hide in the US.
Yeah, um, I mean no - the US isn’t going after the IRA (or a lot of other terrorist groups for that matter). I saw on the news last night (sorry, no cites) about the criteria they are looking for. Ruadh quoted the list from the State Department, and it looks like the same thing I heard. I specifically remember two of those points - they gotta be on “the list” and they gotta “cross oceans” with their deeds. Every country has a different list of who’s a terrorist group, and that’s dependent more on political ties with that country/group than the reality of what they actually do. The list the US uses is of course their own, and EVERY terrorist group AIN’T on it to begin with. Those groups also have to be international; like others have posted - “export” their work. As long as you only slaughter your own countrymen and keep it local, you’re safe from the US for now. They have their work cut out for them even working within these limits… it’s sorta like “we’re gonna get rid of all the vermin in the world, and we’ll start with rats (cockroaches are next on the list when we’ve cleared out the former)” Good start; good luck to y’all.