Warren campaign accused of racism in Nevada

[ISiddiqui]

@puddleglum

Instead of investigating the charges and finding out if they are true, Warren immediately threw her staff under the bus, said that the power dynamics within the campaign were toxic and dangerous. This is the opposite of leadership.

The more time Warren spends on the national stage, the more obvious it is she is exactly the type of person who should not be in politics and should be kept away from power.

This is a terrible take. If you say you believe women, you should actually believe them. And 5 hours is plenty of time to talk to your staff and find out what was going on and why these people were frustrated.

And from the article:

The women said the issues within the campaign hurt the larger effort to marshal votes, particularly in the state’s large Latino communities. Spanish-language literature didn’t arrive until late in the fall despite repeated requests from many staffers. There were too few Spanish-speaking organizers, the former staffers said, despite asking the campaign to hire more. They felt it was a constant battle to set up events in Spanish.

You are running a Democratic primary campaign in Nevada and don’t have Spanish-language literature until the fall?!!! What in the world? The staff probably should be thrown under the bus for that failure.

[Corry_El]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

The claim that working-class people object to Sanders is as irrelevant as it is incorrect. Voters making less than 75K overwhelmingly prefer Sanders.

Sure, there are some working-class voters who hate Sanders, no question. But I have this sneaky suspicion that they didn’t ask ITR Champion to be their champion.

You didn’t quote a specific post but the one by ITR Champion I noticed saying working class voters hate PC (pretty clear from various polls, doesn’t even vary much by race) didn’t mention Sanders but rather Warren and Buttigieg. And although there is no objective scale for measuring PC (although absurd to say ‘it doesn’t exist’), I think a lot of people would agree Sanders is less PC than most major figures in the Democratic Party, including some people who are disturbed he isn’t more PC. I don’t see that as a major difference in perception of Sanders v. Biden, whether or not there was some earlier post I missed saying that.

Also though it’s not immediately clear from either your post or in fairness the linked article or even 100% clear from the supporting info on the poll but it appears the preference among Democratic candidates is only counted for respondents deemed likely to participate in their state’s Democratic primary/caucus. So it isn’t directly relevant to the Democrats’ challenge with white working class voters in a general election. In which again I didn’t notice anyone else say and I don’t believe Sanders is in a worse position than Biden on touchy-feely persona and style aspect. Although Sanders’ proposals along with insistence on calling himself a ‘socialist’ for so long could make him much less electable than Biden with a wide range of voters. Or maybe it wouldn’t. But just to say, the PC/elitist issue doesn’t particular distinguish Sanders and Biden IMO besides not noticing anyone else saying that. I think it does distinguish Warren: it’s a much bigger problem for her in a general. It could distinguish Buttigieg, a much less well known figure than the other three with the non-politics junky public, who has more opportunity/risk to define himself or be defined negatively.

[puddleglum]

@ISiddiqui

This is a terrible take. If you say you believe women, you should actually believe them. And 5 hours is plenty of time to talk to your staff and find out what was going on and why these people were frustrated.

We should believe women because they are uniquely angelic and would never lie, mischaracterize, or otherwise deceive? Women are made from the same crooked timber as men. Five hours is not nearly enough time to get to the bottom of what happened, just enough time to make snap judgments based on stereotypes and accusations.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Corry_El

You didn’t quote a specific post but the one by ITR Champion I noticed saying working class voters hate PC (pretty clear from various polls, doesn’t even vary much by race) didn’t mention Sanders but rather Warren and Buttigieg.

@ITR

This is part of the reason why I’m starting to think that Bernie will win the nomination, now that Biden is fading. Bernie has a large crowd of fanatical true believers who are madly in love with the dream of socialized factories building electric scooters financed by wealth taxes on billionaires, and in pursuit of that dream they’re willing to donate money, work long hours for little or no pay, and do whatever needs to be done. Warren and Buttigieg have both chosen to present themselves as the candidates of extreme political correctness, so naturally the people they attract most are spoiled brats who expect to be coddled, praised, and generally treated like royalty at all times. To win an election, you have to spend the available money and time on winning by convincing people to vote for you. How can you win if you have to spend resources babysitting spoiled children on your own staff?

And I wonder whether any Democrats are aware of how ridiculous and repulsive this sort of thing looks to many working-class voters?

Emphasis added.

Now, his antecedent for “this sort of thing” is unclear. It’s completely possible that he was just offering an unhinged rant about Sanders that had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I gave him the courtesy of thinking that his rant, however absurd, was at least related to the topic. But on rereading, I suspect you’re right: “this sort of thing” referred to his bizarro-world beliefs about Warren and Buttigieg, and the Sanders thing was 100% unrelated.

[ISiddiqui]

@puddleglum

We should believe women because they are uniquely angelic and would never lie, mischaracterize, or otherwise deceive? Women are made from the same crooked timber as men. Five hours is not nearly enough time to get to the bottom of what happened, just enough time to make snap judgments based on stereotypes and accusations.

I see you completely chopped off part of my post that quoted from the article itself which showed Warren’s campaign in Nevada was acting incompetent in areas of Latine outreach. It was literally in the article.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[ITR_champion]

@Whack-a-Mole

None of them believe that and that is not what Bernie is selling.

(Maybe one or two loons believe that…there are a few in every group that are out on the fringes with a weak grasp on reality.)

It was an exaggeration. The point was that Bernie attracts true believers motivated by a vision for massively changing American society and the economy. The others don’t.

[Corry_El]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Emphasis added.

Now, his antecedent for “this sort of thing” is unclear. It’s completely possible that he was just offering an unhinged rant about Sanders that had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I gave him the courtesy of thinking that his rant, however absurd, was at least related to the topic. But on rereading, I suspect you’re right: “this sort of thing” referred to his bizarro-world beliefs about Warren and Buttigieg, and the Sanders thing was 100% unrelated.

OK I guess that could be read different ways. So I would just repeat my point whether it’s really the same as ITR’s or different:
-hyperbole aside in that post, I think it’s indeed possible that Sanders’ policy positions, long held habit of calling himself a socialist, and the flamboyant radicalism of at least some of his supporters, could cost the Democrats the race against Trump.

Although that’s not necessarily a matter of just or even mainly working class voters. And I’m not sure the degree. I’m skeptical of people who are very sure about political outcomes nowadays.

-Sanders does not IMO have as much of a problem with the less directly policy oriented issue of PC and the culture wars, which is a real problem for the Democrats with white working class and non-solidly left general election voters overall. Not as much as Warren would, for sure. Buttigieg OTOH is still an unknown basically in terms of the general electorate.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Corry_El

-hyperbole aside in that post, I think it’s indeed possible that Sanders’ policy positions, long held habit of calling himself a socialist, and the flamboyant radicalism of at least some of his supporters, could cost the Democrats the race against Trump.

Although that’s not necessarily a matter of just or even mainly working class voters. And I’m not sure the degree. I’m skeptical of people who are very sure about political outcomes nowadays.

Yeah, it’s possible. People who point out that it’s possible are making a perfectly valid point. People who exaggerate to that degree and sound cocksure about it are being ridiculous and should not be taken seriously. Same for people who misrepresent their cites so consistently.

Sanders does not IMO have as much of a problem with the less directly policy oriented issue of PC and the culture wars, which is a real problem for the Democrats with white working class and non-solidly left general election voters overall. Not as much as Warren would, for sure. Buttigieg OTOH is still an unknown basically in terms of the general electorate.

Can you be specific? I don’t doubt that there are a lot of white people (working class and wealthy, it’s not a class thing) that have beliefs that you might consider “culture war” and I might consider “pretty fucking bigoted.” But it’s tricky to discuss them in vague generalities.

[Warm_blood]

… Can we get any concrete examples? How are we to know the complaints are legitimate and not a Jody Wilson-Raybould type of thing where people are crying racism/sexism because they’re not getting their own way on everything?

That being said, I do agree with other posters that this is an example of how weaving identity politics too heavily into your brand is a bad idea because the slightest missteps can be weaponized against you. You have to be perfect for it to not risk backfiring on you.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@ITR_champion

Most people hate political correctness. Most Democrats hate it. Most men and most women hate it, most blacks and whites and all other groups hate it.

I read that whole article and at no time do they ever define “political correctness”. What a waste of time; why would you bring such a useless and stupid cite?