Give Evil Captor a break guys. Clearly, this is just Reeder posting on a computer that didn’t have the cookies cleared.
You mean, you can’t examine your own ideas and find weaknesses in them?
To answer your question, it’s conceivable that others might find different flaws than me, or that an interesting debate might arise from even a flawed argument. havent’ seen that happen here yet, though.
I am sorry. You are a liberal who seems unable to make a logical argument. My apologies.
Perhaps you won’t mind we broaden the speculations a bit Mr. Captor? I’ve heard about them corn-circles in England, and also some very respectable people are saying those are made by aliens infinitely more evolved than us. And they have a message to all humans!
Whaddya think, is this a trail worth following or what?
Good lord, this child wouldn’t recognize a logical argument if it gave him a blowjob.
Jayzus tap-dancing Christ… If you think things are weird now, just wait till the elections.
To paraphrase Radiohead:
Just because you feel it
Doesn’t make it so
-Rav
Raven, Winston, Wring, if you’ve got some logical arguments, post 'em. If you got nothing … continue as always, I guess.
It was not arranged by the Bush Administration.
But, I have it on good authority that Quaddafi and Mr T. are actually the same person.
(You didn’t hear this from me.)
I don’t understand why my contributions to this thread sucked, Mr. B. Sure, I’m not batting .1000 in the rational post department. But, hey, they test for steroids now!
This is, sadly for revolutionaries, another example of where a free press acts as the Fourth Estate and creates a shitstorm of truth that protects us all.
There weren’t any logical arguments in the OP, so why start now?
Contemplating such a thing is not unprecedented in U.S. history. Remember [URL=http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods}Operation Northwoods? It was a plan put together by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to conduct fake terrorist attacks in the United States so they could blame them on Cuba and justify an invasion. Kennedy very wisely put the kaibosh on it in 1962. And it’s not like the bunch we have in office now has never had covert dealings with Islamic fundamentalists, like in Iran Contra.
Having said that, I don’t buy the OP’s scenario. Too much risk for the conspirators. If it ever came out, Renquist himself would haul W. out of the White House and hang him in the Rose Garden. The absolute most I could buy is that Norquist or some of the neo-cons had some kind of teriary contact with al Qeada for some unknown reason (perhaps even planning some kind of Northwoods double cross, or maybe they thought they were doing some kind of pipeline deal with the Taliban) and got burned. That would be enough reason for a cover up right there, and sufficent justification to fly the bin Ladens out of the U.S. on September 12, 2001 (if someone who could arrange it were getting blackmailed by the Taliban or Al Qaeda). But that’s purest speculation from someone who is facinated with conspiracy theories from a narrative point of view, and it’s so full of holes you could slice it up and put it on a cheeseburger.
However…
Could the 2001 anthrax attacks have been a Northwoods operation? Consider: 1) Tom Daschle, the most prominent member of the political opposition, was the hightest government official attacked. 2) The notes included in the envelopes explicitly said “We have this anthrax,” which implies there was a larger organization or country behind the attacks. 3) Anthrax was among the biological weapons Iraq was supposedly “known” to have. IIRC, Iraq was mentioned in the media at the time of the attacks as being one possible origin of the anthrax. 4) The PNAC document mentioned above, which planned the Iraq war in the 90’s, mentioned the need for an attack to motivate the country to attack Iraq. 5) The presumed conspirators, neo-con allies in the military and rouge CIA agents (what good conspiracy worth its salt is without a rouge CIA agent or two?), would have easy access to weaponized anthrax. 6) The anthrax was found to be of U.S. origin. 7) No one has been caught, and there doesn’t seem to be much effort to catch anybody.
So here’s the scenario: September 11 happens. The country is bowed up for a big war, and the neo-cons see their opportunity to grab the Iraqi oil fields and settle the old score with Saddaam. But wait–there’s no link between Al Q and Iraq! So our black ops guys put some anthrax envelopes together and send them out. A few people will get hurt or killed, but hey, you can’t make an omlette without breaking a few eggs–and maybe one of those eggs will be Tom Daschle. Once the hysteria starts, you make sure you have experts on the news saying that Iraq is the most likely source of the anthrax. Everybody gets pissed off at Iraq, and viola, instant war.
See? That one’s much better than the OP.
vibrotronica,
I like it as conspiracy theories go, but for the fact that the administration hasn’t tried to link the attacks to Iraq. I have, as at the time it made sense to me.
The whole US-sells-biological-samples-to-Iraq angle, which used to proliferate on left-wing websites, has fallen apart since the new focus of the left is on “no WMDs!” If Iraq never used anthrax samples from the US to make weapons, that cuts two ways.
It might be that Iraq actually did have something to do with the anthrax attacks. If the strain was a US strain that was sold to Iraq way back when, that would need to be covered up also.
Of course, always keep in mind, long-lasting cover-ups in a democracy with a free press tend not to exist. We already know the strain was a US strain. Scientists have written about the case in some detail. We already know US germ samples were sold to Iraq back in the 1980s. That has been investigated by Congress. Some claim the samples were not used to make weapons. Others disagree.
Someone explain to me what makes this thread different from:
- Holocaust denial
- Slavery denial
- Fluoridation polluting our precious bodily fluids (“Ever seen a Red drink water, Mandrake?”)
- TWA 800 was shot down by an Aegeis Cruiser
- The Moon landings were all fake
- One of the Teletubbies is actually straight
threads?
BTW, I always thought Northwoods was a plan along the lines of the “You always prepare for War with Switzerland.” tactic? Unless there is proof that it actually was intended to be carried out…
Una, did you even READ the OP?
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This thread is admittedly speculation. The topics you list all tend to have someone announcing their theories as fact.
-
This thread is based on some fairly straightforward information that no one posting on this thread has argued with … Grover Norquist DID found the Islamic Institute, which HAS had convicted terrorists as members, and Norquist DOES have the ear of the Bush Administration, particularly Karl Rove, who IS the dirty tricks guy for the Bush Admin.
Holocaust denial and slavery denial both requiring a lot of evidence to the contrary, as do some of the others on your list (I’m not familiar with those particular conspiracy theories, so I can’t say how much denying or accepting they require).
This thread requires no belief per se. The speculative element is clearly identified as such. There are cites for Norquist and the Islamic Institute, and there are whole books about Rove’s career as a dirty trickster.
Except I know one of the Teletubbies is straight because she made a pass at me a couple of years ago.
Shit, I need some serious tinfoil for this thread.
This I think is the biggest issue with the scenario – all that risk. Especially, being vulnerable to blackmail by terrorists who have nothing to lose by “pulling the trigger” so to speak. Even if Rove figured there was some way he could work through Norquist, the folks Norquist would be working with would probably give him up in a heartbeat, and any prosecutor would have no problem giving Norquist dire enough options (death penalty, anyone?) to make him give Rove up.
The REWARDS would be great, but those risks would probably have Rove looking for a safer way to rouse the American public. Still, why did the White House ignore those warnings about 9/11? They might well have gotten word through Norquist and his terrorist pals that something was up …
You left out Og looking the other way when Grog hit Bog over the head with a rock and stole 3 of his skins.
Yeah, well it’s always something, isn’t? Maybe the operation got found out and quashed. Maybe they were counting on someone else to make the connection. Maybe the plan just flat out didn’t work. Maybe the attack was supposed to make the point to Bush and not to the American people (Cheney: “See? Anthrax can be used as a weapon! And Iraq’s got it!”) Maybe we weren’t supposed to make the explicit connection between Iraq and anthrax–the attacks were a psych war operation to keep the population off balance and scared so that later when the Admin claimed that Iraq had anthrax, Joe Public says “Ooh! Anthrax! That’s some scary stuff!” instead of associating anthrax with rap-metal. Maybe the people who did it are actually farm-raised militia types who made their own anthrax from their sheep farm. At this point, no one knows who did it, and it doesn’t look like we’re going to know any time soon. Such is the breeding ground for conspiracy theories.
For the record, I don’t know if I believe this myself. I wrote a screenplay a few years ago (pre-X-Files, actually) that revolved around a huge unlikely conspiracy. Ever since then I sort of instinctivly put the conspiracy filter on the news to see what I can cook up. On the other hand, it is about as plausable an explaination for the anthrax attacks as anything else I have seen.
The biggest argument against my anthrax scenario is that it turned out that the neo-cons didn’t really need to do it in order to get their war. Who needs conspiracies when you’ve got the Big Lie?
Anthrac…, ummm…Una (still can’t get used to the name change), the point is that the plan existed, thus it is not “unthinkable”. And the fixed link, along with ABC News reports that the entire Joint Chiefs had signed off on the plan, and that chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitze apparently lost his job over Northwoods.
But, Evil Captor, as I pointed out, and you agreed, the only evidence linking Rove is through a friendship with Norquist. Norquist’s only link to 9/11, if you really want to grab a thin reed to save this, could be back-channel funding he might, or might not, have been aware of.
Trying to link Norquist to 9/11 on this evidence does not even raise, in legal terms, a reasonable suspicion, much less Rove.
It does raise the issue of political fundraising, again.
This is crazy talk. Simply put, politicians don’t commit mass murder of potential voters very often in a democracy. What you are alleging could be termed defamatory. Lucky for you Rove is a public figure.
Hang on a second, I think Evil Captor has a point. Observe:
Kevin Bacon starred in A Few Good Men with Demi Moore. Demi was in the 2003 movie Charlie’s Angels: Full Throttle with Carrie Fisher. This is where it gets good:
Ms. Fisher was also in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back with Chris Rock. Chris was also in Bowling for Columbine, the controversial film by Michael Moore. And in Bowling, there is a clip of. . . George W. Bush.
Bush -> Rock -> Fisher -> Moore -> Bacon.
Footloose was arranged by GWB.