Was Bush really a "fundie"? Also, how smart/dumb was he really?

If being smart is a hallmark of presidents I guess we are safe from Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann. If being articulate “at times” is a hallmark, most of the members of the SDMB would qualify. And, I would venture to say the neither you nor I have the faintest idea how Bush felt or feels about Jack Chick.

:confused: :confused: This is the sort of non sequitur that leaves me baffled.

“Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East… The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled… This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”

Multiple choice question for astorian:

  1. It is “moderate” to believe that the Iraq invasion was a Mission from God to erase His enemies before the New Age.
  2. Chirac is lying.
  3. I didn’t need to read the thread because I already know the answers.

He seems like a relatively intelligent man who is difficult to persuade away from his convictions. Which has the positive and negative effects you’d expect.

I’ll also add, who said anything about being a fundie making you "fringe? The fundies number in the tens of millions and are immensely powerful, not some tiny fringe group. They are the dominant religious force or close to it in America as far as I can tell. And they have been for a long time; Jerry Falwell had Reagan’s ear and Reagan also spouted apocalyptic nonsense about Gog and Magog; in his case the idea that they meant the USSR and China.

Highly unlikely. Of our 43 Presidents none have been idiots or senile.

The people would never have voted for Romney anyways due to his flip-flopping even if he was an Evangelical.

There are very conservative Lutheran denominations.

Not necessarilly. Many smart people believe far more insane things, like all the Marxist-Leninist intellectuals of the last century.

We can guess. George W Bush is fairly chummy with Catholics and the Pope.

Many Presidents and other leaders believed themselves to be doing the will of God.

So this means what as regards Jack Chick and George W. Bush’s feelings for or about the man?

Reagan was most likely senile later in his term. And while Bush II wasn’t literally an idiot, he was quite stupid in my opinion.

More to the point; there’s no legal bar to a stupid person becoming President, nor is there one to being senile. So yes; you can be stupid or senile and be President.

And? Numbers make it no less crazy.

Apparently, Chick doesn’t like Catholics.

There are Lutherans and there are Lutherans - Bachmann belongs to a much more conservative synod (I want to say Wisconsin, but I’m too lazy to look) than the standard Lutherans you may be familar with from Lake Woebegone (starting with a “the pope is the anti-Christ” bias). They (Bachmann’s synod) were one of the three or so denominations in my small farming town of 1,000 folks (half Catholic, a chunk of Methodists, and then various Lutherans). I think I shared here how my brother’s HS girlfriend was forbidden to date him once her dad figured out that he was Catholic.

Kind of like Baptist to Southern Baptist (somewhat whack-a-doodle) to Fred Phelps Baptist (Primitive? although they would probably disavow most of his antics also).

Asking if Bush is a fundie on the SDMB is like asking a Klansman if Martin Luther King Jr. was a nigger.

Regards,
Shodan

Geez, if you really think this board is comparable to the Klan, why are you here? Ew.

I wouldn’t have voted for the guy myself, but I figure so much of his image is manufactured that it’s near-impossible to determine what he believed, and this is entirely typical of high-level political strategy. If he has to appear to be fundamentalist to win, that just shows how disproportionate (and troubling) is the fundamentalist influence in American politics.

I think he went to church even less than Obama did when he was prez, right?

There are fundamentalist sects within both the Lutheran and Methodist movements. In the Methodist tradition there are the Free Methodist Church and the Church of the Nazarene, both highly evangelical with some fundamentalist characteristics, and the Conservative Holiness movement which is extremely fundamentalist. Also, the Pentecostalists who tend to be strongly fundamentalist, trace their roots to Methodism though they no longer claim any direct affiliation.

Fundamentalism in the Lutheran Church is less clearly defined, mostly exists as a subgroup within the ELCA where many clergymen, individuals and congregations hold to a form of fundyism. Also, many Lutherans have embraced the Reformed movement which is actually a Luthern-friendly form of hyper-calvinism.

Geo. W. Bush has at times claimed to be from the Evangelical Methodist tradition which probably indicates that he holds generally to the tenets of the Free Methodist, CotN or Wesleyan groups rather than the more mainstream UMC.

Quoted for silliness. We have had several intellectually sub-par presidents including more than one who demonstrated senility, at least by the end of their terms.

This may be a valid observation on the general electorate, but in the primaries to get the nomination, it is only a minor point. Note that neither Massachusetts nor Michigan, (where his father was governor), have large, strong Fundamentalist populations, so they were able to get elected, but in a nation-wide race for the Republican nomination, he would have to battle his way through the South where his religion would seriosly hamper him. You can make all the claims about “flip-flopping” that you want, but that does not negate the reality that in the Republican party, it is his religion that will hinder his efforts more than any political position. Perry has also “flip-flopped” on several issues–always in the direction of the Religious Right, and I see no indication that his changes of position are being thrown up in his face by the Republican Party.
Since your comment to which I responded talked about “surviving,” rather than getting elected, it seems to be a clear reference to the run for the nomination and you remain more than likely wrong.

Not really. There is an element of Conservative Catholics who like him and an element of Liberal Catholics who dislike him, (imagine that), but he is not “chummy” with them in any sense. Similarly, both Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict have praised specific issues on which he has taken stands, (e.g., abortion), while criticising him for other actions such as the invasion of Iraq, (and the Abu Ghraib scandal, separately), the death penalty, extraordinary renditions, and Guantanamo. GWB liked to hobnob with world leaders and try to make himself appear to be their pals, (see his behavior with Putin), but that did not mean that they actually reciprocated his odd behavior.

Let’s see a credible cite from a doctor who examined the Presidents you allege, who diagnosed senility before the end of their terms.

Unless this is just Der Trihs argumentation, where you simply spout nonsense.

Regards,
Shodan

Molly Ivins had a chapter in one of her books(cant remember which one) that details Bush’s habit constantly allying with and abandoning the religious conservatives in Texas. I think he became more conservative as a national figure because the christian right was a larger ally. I doubt he would have been elected without the gleaming endorsement of Pat Robertson(and others).

I’m still not exactly sure what qualifies as a fundie, but he does believe only Christians are going to heaven, which I find disturbing.

And of course let’s not forget his favorite philosopher Jesus Christ

Once he got on the national stage he didn’t tawlk too good on account that he aint a very good ventriloquist. As far as his smarts go, I’m sure he’s reasonably intelligent. I just don’t think he’s interested, hence his anti-intellectualism. He gets into Yale with a C average from UT because of his family, then disdains the people who actually worked to get there. Go figure?

Reagan , FDR and Wilson all showed symptoms before the end of their terms. They were diminished long before they were done.

Why would he do that? He didn’t claim that any Presidents had been diagnosed with senility by a doctor before the end of their terms.

A scenario which, as you would likely agree, is a practical impossibility.

Re: “fundie” - Not in the classic sense. I see him as a practicing Christian, but not a crusader. (Like a lot a folks - he was in the stands, not on the field.) He wasn’t pushing an agenda based on his personal relationship with Jesus (ala Bachmann, Perry). But, he was more than willing to pander to the Christian Right for support and votes.

Re: smart/dumb - Just watch some of his speeches when he was Governor of Texas. He was glib, quick, articulate, and in command of details. I agree that he was trained to “dumb it down” and was quite skilled at playing that part. Again, he was doing it to pander for support and votes.

Bottom line, he was more than willing to bullshit people to the bitter end. His philosophy seemed to be that the ends justify the means. Whatever morals he picked up from his Bible studies didn’t really affect his big picture, yah? IMHO it comes from that privileged background where the greatest achievement is to say to others, “Well, I won, didn’t I? Heh heh.”

Something certainly happened to him.

Bush is UMC. He was a member of Highland Park United Methodist Church in Dallas, where he also taught Sunday School, and then after he became governor of Texas, worshiped at Tarrytown United Methodist Church in Austin. That doesn’t mean that he agrees with the UMC on everything, and the UMC general conference tended to be critical of his presidency, but he’s a United Methodist, as is his wife.