If being smart is a hallmark of presidents I guess we are safe from Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann. If being articulate “at times” is a hallmark, most of the members of the SDMB would qualify. And, I would venture to say the neither you nor I have the faintest idea how Bush felt or feels about Jack Chick.
This is the sort of non sequitur that leaves me baffled.
“Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East… The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled… This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”
Multiple choice question for astorian:
- It is “moderate” to believe that the Iraq invasion was a Mission from God to erase His enemies before the New Age.
- Chirac is lying.
- I didn’t need to read the thread because I already know the answers.
He seems like a relatively intelligent man who is difficult to persuade away from his convictions. Which has the positive and negative effects you’d expect.
I’ll also add, who said anything about being a fundie making you "fringe? The fundies number in the tens of millions and are immensely powerful, not some tiny fringe group. They are the dominant religious force or close to it in America as far as I can tell. And they have been for a long time; Jerry Falwell had Reagan’s ear and Reagan also spouted apocalyptic nonsense about Gog and Magog; in his case the idea that they meant the USSR and China.

No, you don’t have to be “smart to be President”. You can be an idiot or senile and still be President.
Highly unlikely. Of our 43 Presidents none have been idiots or senile.

You seem pretty sure of this assertion, but you are likely wrong.
To get the nomination, Romney has to fight his way through the Republican primaries. The Religious Right has spent the last 35 years assiduously inserting themselves into the Republican organization at the precint and state levels. In a general election, the people upset by Romney’s religion might amount to a rounding error, (although it is probably much higher), but in the primaries that he needs to win to build financial support and garner the delegates to make it through the nominating process, the Religious Right is very powerful, and a very large number of them consider the CoJCoLDS to be a “cult” and will not vote for him under any circumstances.
The number of people who would “never” vote for a Mormon is “only” about five to seven times the number who would “never” vote for a Catholic or a Jew, but that group of people makes up nearly one third of the Republican base. That is a very high barrier to overcome.
The people would never have voted for Romney anyways due to his flip-flopping even if he was an Evangelical.

George W. Bush is a moderately observant Methodist.
Michelle Bachmann is a Lutheran.
There are very conservative Lutheran denominations.

If being smart is a hallmark of presidents I guess we are safe from Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann.
Not necessarilly. Many smart people believe far more insane things, like all the Marxist-Leninist intellectuals of the last century.
If being articulate “at times” is a hallmark, most of the members of the SDMB would qualify. And, I would venture to say the neither you nor I have the faintest idea how Bush felt or feels about Jack Chick.
We can guess. George W Bush is fairly chummy with Catholics and the Pope.

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This is the sort of non sequitur that leaves me baffled.
“Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East… The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled… This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”
Multiple choice question for astorian:
- It is “moderate” to believe that the Iraq invasion was a Mission from God to erase His enemies before the New Age.
- Chirac is lying.
- I didn’t need to read the thread because I already know the answers.
Many Presidents and other leaders believed themselves to be doing the will of God.
Originally posted by LouisB:
If being articulate “at times” is a hallmark, most of the members of the SDMB would qualify. And, I would venture to say the neither you nor I have the faintest idea how Bush felt or feels about Jack Chick.
Originally posted by Qin Shai Huangdi:
We can guess. George W Bush is fairly chummy with Catholics and the Pope.
So this means what as regards Jack Chick and George W. Bush’s feelings for or about the man?

Highly unlikely. Of our 43 Presidents none have been idiots or senile.
Reagan was most likely senile later in his term. And while Bush II wasn’t literally an idiot, he was quite stupid in my opinion.
More to the point; there’s no legal bar to a stupid person becoming President, nor is there one to being senile. So yes; you can be stupid or senile and be President.

Many Presidents and other leaders believed themselves to be doing the will of God.
And? Numbers make it no less crazy.

So this means what as regards Jack Chick and George W. Bush’s feelings for or about the man?
Apparently, Chick doesn’t like Catholics.
Six comics present the testimony of anti-Catholic activist Alberto Rivera, who claimed that, as a Jesuit priest, he had become privy to many secrets about the Roman Catholic Church. Among Rivera’s claims: Catholicism created Islam (the “Vatican Islam conspiracy”); masterminded the 1917 Russian Revolution and the Holocaust; and started World War II.
<snip>
Many Catholic and Protestant organizations consider Chick to be intensely anti-Catholic, based on his various claims about the Roman Catholic Church .[43] Chick responds to these accusations by saying he is opposed to the Roman Catholic Church as a sociopolitical organization but not to its individual members. On his “Roman Catholicism FAQ,” Chick says he began publishing his theories about the Roman Catholic Church because “he loves Catholics and wants them to be saved through faith in Jesus.”[44] Catholic Answers calls Chick “savagely anti-Catholic,”[45] describes Chick’s claims about the Catholic Church as “bizarre”[46] and “often grotesque in their arguments,”[47] and calls for the tracts to be pulled from the market and corrected.[48] In the early 1980s, Chick’s stance on Catholicism led some Christian bookstores to stop stocking his tracts, and he withdrew from the Christian Booksellers Association after the association considered expelling him.[49] Christianity Today described Jack Chick as an example of “the world of ordinary, nonlearned evangelicals,” for whom “atavistic anti-Catholicism remains as colorful and unmistakable as ever.”[50] Michael Ian Borer, a sociology professor of Furman University at the time, showed Chick’s strong anti-Catholic themes in a 2007 American Sociological Association presentation[51] and in a peer reviewed article the next year in Religion and American Culture

George W. Bush is a moderately observant Methodist.
Michelle Bachmann is a Lutheran.
How they’ve been painted as members of some kind of fringe “Fundie” sects is beyond me.
There are Lutherans and there are Lutherans - Bachmann belongs to a much more conservative synod (I want to say Wisconsin, but I’m too lazy to look) than the standard Lutherans you may be familar with from Lake Woebegone (starting with a “the pope is the anti-Christ” bias). They (Bachmann’s synod) were one of the three or so denominations in my small farming town of 1,000 folks (half Catholic, a chunk of Methodists, and then various Lutherans). I think I shared here how my brother’s HS girlfriend was forbidden to date him once her dad figured out that he was Catholic.
Kind of like Baptist to Southern Baptist (somewhat whack-a-doodle) to Fred Phelps Baptist (Primitive? although they would probably disavow most of his antics also).

George W. Bush is a moderately observant Methodist.
Michelle Bachmann is a Lutheran.
How they’ve been painted as members of some kind of fringe “Fundie” sects is beyond me.
Asking if Bush is a fundie on the SDMB is like asking a Klansman if Martin Luther King Jr. was a nigger.
Regards,
Shodan
Geez, if you really think this board is comparable to the Klan, why are you here? Ew.
I wouldn’t have voted for the guy myself, but I figure so much of his image is manufactured that it’s near-impossible to determine what he believed, and this is entirely typical of high-level political strategy. If he has to appear to be fundamentalist to win, that just shows how disproportionate (and troubling) is the fundamentalist influence in American politics.
I think he went to church even less than Obama did when he was prez, right?

George W. Bush is a moderately observant Methodist.
Michelle Bachmann is a Lutheran.
How they’ve been painted as members of some kind of fringe “Fundie” sects is beyond me.
There are fundamentalist sects within both the Lutheran and Methodist movements. In the Methodist tradition there are the Free Methodist Church and the Church of the Nazarene, both highly evangelical with some fundamentalist characteristics, and the Conservative Holiness movement which is extremely fundamentalist. Also, the Pentecostalists who tend to be strongly fundamentalist, trace their roots to Methodism though they no longer claim any direct affiliation.
Fundamentalism in the Lutheran Church is less clearly defined, mostly exists as a subgroup within the ELCA where many clergymen, individuals and congregations hold to a form of fundyism. Also, many Lutherans have embraced the Reformed movement which is actually a Luthern-friendly form of hyper-calvinism.
Geo. W. Bush has at times claimed to be from the Evangelical Methodist tradition which probably indicates that he holds generally to the tenets of the Free Methodist, CotN or Wesleyan groups rather than the more mainstream UMC.

Highly unlikely. Of our 43 Presidents none have been idiots or senile.
Quoted for silliness. We have had several intellectually sub-par presidents including more than one who demonstrated senility, at least by the end of their terms.

The people would never have voted for Romney anyways due to his flip-flopping even if he was an Evangelical.
This may be a valid observation on the general electorate, but in the primaries to get the nomination, it is only a minor point. Note that neither Massachusetts nor Michigan, (where his father was governor), have large, strong Fundamentalist populations, so they were able to get elected, but in a nation-wide race for the Republican nomination, he would have to battle his way through the South where his religion would seriosly hamper him. You can make all the claims about “flip-flopping” that you want, but that does not negate the reality that in the Republican party, it is his religion that will hinder his efforts more than any political position. Perry has also “flip-flopped” on several issues–always in the direction of the Religious Right, and I see no indication that his changes of position are being thrown up in his face by the Republican Party.
Since your comment to which I responded talked about “surviving,” rather than getting elected, it seems to be a clear reference to the run for the nomination and you remain more than likely wrong.

We can guess. George W Bush is fairly chummy with Catholics and the Pope.
Not really. There is an element of Conservative Catholics who like him and an element of Liberal Catholics who dislike him, (imagine that), but he is not “chummy” with them in any sense. Similarly, both Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict have praised specific issues on which he has taken stands, (e.g., abortion), while criticising him for other actions such as the invasion of Iraq, (and the Abu Ghraib scandal, separately), the death penalty, extraordinary renditions, and Guantanamo. GWB liked to hobnob with world leaders and try to make himself appear to be their pals, (see his behavior with Putin), but that did not mean that they actually reciprocated his odd behavior.

We have had several intellectually sub-par presidents including more than one who demonstrated senility, at least by the end of their terms.
Let’s see a credible cite from a doctor who examined the Presidents you allege, who diagnosed senility before the end of their terms.
Unless this is just Der Trihs argumentation, where you simply spout nonsense.
Regards,
Shodan
Molly Ivins had a chapter in one of her books(cant remember which one) that details Bush’s habit constantly allying with and abandoning the religious conservatives in Texas. I think he became more conservative as a national figure because the christian right was a larger ally. I doubt he would have been elected without the gleaming endorsement of Pat Robertson(and others).
I’m still not exactly sure what qualifies as a fundie, but he does believe only Christians are going to heaven, which I find disturbing.
And of course let’s not forget his favorite philosopher Jesus Christ
Once he got on the national stage he didn’t tawlk too good on account that he aint a very good ventriloquist. As far as his smarts go, I’m sure he’s reasonably intelligent. I just don’t think he’s interested, hence his anti-intellectualism. He gets into Yale with a C average from UT because of his family, then disdains the people who actually worked to get there. Go figure?
Reagan , FDR and Wilson all showed symptoms before the end of their terms. They were diminished long before they were done.

Let’s see a credible cite from a doctor who examined the Presidents you allege, who diagnosed senility before the end of their terms.
Why would he do that? He didn’t claim that any Presidents had been diagnosed with senility by a doctor before the end of their terms.
A scenario which, as you would likely agree, is a practical impossibility.
Re: “fundie” - Not in the classic sense. I see him as a practicing Christian, but not a crusader. (Like a lot a folks - he was in the stands, not on the field.) He wasn’t pushing an agenda based on his personal relationship with Jesus (ala Bachmann, Perry). But, he was more than willing to pander to the Christian Right for support and votes.
Re: smart/dumb - Just watch some of his speeches when he was Governor of Texas. He was glib, quick, articulate, and in command of details. I agree that he was trained to “dumb it down” and was quite skilled at playing that part. Again, he was doing it to pander for support and votes.
Bottom line, he was more than willing to bullshit people to the bitter end. His philosophy seemed to be that the ends justify the means. Whatever morals he picked up from his Bible studies didn’t really affect his big picture, yah? IMHO it comes from that privileged background where the greatest achievement is to say to others, “Well, I won, didn’t I? Heh heh.”
Something certainly happened to him.

Geo. W. Bush has at times claimed to be from the Evangelical Methodist tradition which probably indicates that he holds generally to the tenets of the Free Methodist, CotN or Wesleyan groups rather than the more mainstream UMC.
Bush is UMC. He was a member of Highland Park United Methodist Church in Dallas, where he also taught Sunday School, and then after he became governor of Texas, worshiped at Tarrytown United Methodist Church in Austin. That doesn’t mean that he agrees with the UMC on everything, and the UMC general conference tended to be critical of his presidency, but he’s a United Methodist, as is his wife.