This is why I hang out here. Can we do the Pentagon next?
This doesn’t look like an angry bee stinging someone in the arm to me.
And (I am not an architect or a structural engineer), but from everything I’ve seen or read about the Twin Towers, they were not “over built”; to the contrary, their construction was an innovative tubular structure that allowed them to be (comparatively speaking) lightly built, with much more open floor space than an older design would have permitted.
The Empire State Building–obviously a much older design–is “over-built” compared to the Twin Towers; and in 1945 the Empire State Building survived an impact by a (much lighter, much slower) aircraft without failing.
On reflection, it doesn’t matter what the OP’s motives were. Like the previous post, it’s reassuring to see an even keel of reason come in to guide the thread.
Yes, but if the bee was stuffed with thousands of gallons of explosive jet fuel… (I agree, it’s a nonsense comparison. A more apt comparison might be a smallish car crashing into your spine at high speed.)
Good posts by MEBucker and Algorithm here. It would be nice to see one of these conspiracy theorists show an open mind to the facts, but I’m not holding my breath.
I hadn’t heard the OP’s point about Marvin Bush before, but it appears to be wildly inaccurate. Bush was on the board of a company called Securacom, which provided some security to companies in the WTC. But he was no longer a director after 1999 and by 2000 he had sold his stock. Securacom was far from the only security company that had tenants at the trade center, but more importantly, this is not even CLOSE to the same thing as being the superintendent of the WTC and being in charge of a decision like removing bomb-sniffing dogs! Bush was on Securacom’s audit committee, not the evil league of evil committee. If the WTC had a single superintendent, I am not sure who it was.
I’m also trying to imagine what bomb-sniffing dogs could have done to stop jetliners from crashing into a skyscraper.
Exceptional claims require exceptional proof. The evidence has been looked at from every angle and it all converges on the conventional explanation.
“Exceptional claims require exceptional proof.”
Hmmm…I wonder who came up with that one? No way would it have been a professional skeptic!
You don’t get it - he’s implying the super sent the sniffing dogs away so that his shadowy men could plant demolition explosives without his *regular *men knowing. That’s what conspirators do you know ? Wheels within wheels, man. Why have only 20 henchmen when you can have 40 working against each other ? Think, goddamnit, THINK ! 
I thought it kinda sad and rolleyes-worthy to have that tired list of clichés on the Dope but hey, if 9/11 conspiracies aren’t ignorance, I don’t know what it. Fight away, architecture experts.
So the WTC mysteriously collapsed into its own footprint, except for the parts that didn’t collapse into the footprint and landed away by as much as a 400 feet? A hint for the future: when parts of your “evidence” directly contradict each other, you might want to avoid putting them directly next to each other.
I always refer folks like you tothis site. It has all the answers you need.
Bush is only “complicit” insofar as he was mostly asleep at the wheel as regarded worrying about terrorism on American soil and trying to be in anyway proactive in preventing it prior to 9/11.
The conspiracy theories are just that. You have to think to yourself what would be required to pull off such a stupendous attack as detailed in the conspiracy theories and it becomes immediately apparent such a thing would be impossible to pull off and keep the conspiracy itself a secret.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for beating journalists mercilessly, but do you seriously believe an effective conspiracy would encompass pretty much all the news media of the English speaking world? Any journalist who came up with a smoking gun on 9/11 would not only make his career but go down in the history books. Any journalist involved in such a setup would have a huge incentive to blab.
You see, that’s the problem not only with 9/11 conspiracy theories but with all conspiracy theories. They postulate a secret organization so huge and complex and requiring absolute trustworthiness and secrecy from so many people that the whole thing quickly becomes too silly to take seriously.
No, the Madrid Windsor building was a hybrid - the lower section was framed with reinforced concrete; the upper section had its central core framed in concrete, but the outer part was framed in steel. The steel-framed part of the structure completely collapsed, leaving only the concrete-framed portions standing.
Take a look at this page, and compare the before-fire picture at the upper right, with post-fire pictures on the rest of the page.
trumpsahead - if you come back - and if you’re an intellectually honest person genuinely seeking to separate the wheat from the chaff, as opposed to one of Dylan Avery’s foot soldiers spreading the “gospel”, you will - please answer my response to you from the other thread.
Not to mention the WTC suffered significant structural damage prior to the fires by having a plane plow in to it and blow out a whole side of the building. The Madrid Windsor did not have that rather big issue to contend with as well. Not to mention the WTC was a helluva lot bigger (so more weight and loads to contend with).
IIRC there were three separate analysis of how well the WTC behaved structurally and all three agreed it did rather well staying up as long as it did considering the beating it took and given its design. Could you have built it more strongly? Sure. Are there lessons to be learned for future buildings to be more resilient? Sure. But there was nothing “wrong” with the WTC building design given what people knew when they built it.
But…but…what about the “Dancing Israelis”? The Mossad was surely in on this most inside of jobs. They’d have to be, after all, the Jews rule the world.
Just to look at this claim, it’s not true. Marvin Bush was a member of the board of directors (never "superintendent of WTC buildings) of the security company Stratesec from 1993-2000. He was no longer a member of the board in September of 2001. The board of directors of a company doesn’t handle day to day operations, either. They hire and fire executives, decide on executive compensation, declare stock dividends, and things like that. But no director would be able to say, for instance, “don’t patrol this building” or something.
Besides, it’s a moot point. in 1996, Stratesec accepted a contract with the World Trade Center to provide electronic security (things like keycards and alarm monitoring). They never handled the WTC’s physical security, so they had no control over security guards and dogs. What’s more, the WTC cancelled the contract in 1998, on the grounds that Stratesec was unable to adequately perform its duties, and gave the job to someone else.
So, in fact, when the WTC attacks occured, Marvin Bush was formerly associated with a company that had formerly provided them security.
The only other Marvin Bush association with the WTC was that he was, at the time of the attack, a member of the board of directors (remember, no day to day control, just executive hiring and payment of dividends) at HCC Insurance, which had some of the insurance coverage for the WTC. So, of course, it was in HCC Insurance’s interest to make sure the building stayed up and wasn’t attacked, so that it could continue to pay its insurance premiums and the owners wouldn’t be able to collect on the policy.
Now I have a mental image of an undead Elmer Fudd.
I’ll just tackle the towers with this one:
The towers, as noted above by others, were constructed as basically big steel tubes. Most skyscrapers are interlocking skeletons of steel, with the outer stone/concrete skin being less a support structure than a “curtain” concealing the inner framework. Not so with the WTC towers; their skin was their support. Each tower has a solid steel outer skin and an additional solid inner core that housed the elevators and other apparatus.
The outer skin was connected to this inner core by the floor panels. Large open floor sections were bracketed between the steel outer skin and the inner core, connected with what were essentially L-brackets. These L-brackets and their support structure were protected by blown-on insulation, which would protect them from most typical fires and keep temperatures low enough to prevent their failure. These floor panels kept things in alignment so that the upper floors were positioned properly for their weight to be supported by the lower floors. So, you got a mental picture of what we’re working with here? Very important before proceeding to the next section.
Now, a plane hits each of the towers. When each plane hits, the force of the strike plus the ensuing explosion causes damage to the outer steel skin, obviously. More importantly, the concussive force of the collision and the explosion was sufficient to completely knock loose most if not all of the insulation from the L-brackets and floor support structures of nearby floor panels, the ones that weren’t outright destroyed by the collision. This left the L-brackets and floor supports exposed to a jet-fuel fire, which burned unchecked. The brackets weakened, bent, and failed, causing the collapse of even more floor panels as the fire continued to burn.
So, each tower by this point was a hollow steel tube that was losing the floor panels that kept it aligned with the heavy upper floors. Imagine if you will a set of four steel stilts, about fifty feet tall, arranged in a square, with a platform on top. The platform holds, for illustrative purposes, 100 tons of rock. Now, if you have horizontal supports between those stilts every vertical ten feet or so, keeping each stilt aligned with its mates, the structure will hold, even as the weight shifts. Remove those aligning braces, however, and you have a very unstable structure. A slight shift in weight will cause the structure to twist, overbalance, and collapse. This is what the towers became: tons and tons of upper floors supported by fifty foot stilts. At this point, collapse was inevitable. Once the structure twisted and the hundreds of tons of upper floors came crashing down, the lower floors didn’t stand a chance.
There’s no mystery or conspiracy here. The WTC towers’ design wasn’t flawed, it was just uniquely vulnerable to this type of attack, in ways even the attackers didn’t understand.
The Onion had a member of Al Quaeda on to talk about this.
Thanks for the detail/corrections, Captain Amazing. It’s a shame the OP won’t read it, since I’m betting he’s gone for good.
Be vewwy, vewwy quiet… I’m hunting human fwesh…