I believe yes, I’m sorry to say. But it seems there is more evidence suggesting complicitous behavior on US part than there is suggesting Arabs did it.
I gave many reasons in another thread but my rebuttals are always the same: get outta here, you’re crazy, another whacko conspiracy nut, but no one offers intelligent reasons as to why my reasoning is wrong. Is it fear that keeps people silent or do we need to forget about this like we did with Kennedy assassination?
Conspiracy nut
How about offering some evidence and arguments in this thread?
As I’ve said before in 9/11 conspiracy threads, the events are too vast for the Bush administration to be in on it without someone somewhere knowing about it and wanting to talk. Especially in today’s economy. If you could come forward with the real 9/11 inside story you’d be an overnight millionaire and celebrity. The public spotlight would be upon you so you’d have much less worry about black helicopters descending to take you off to the government’s secret torture chamber.
Also, I’m no fan of Bush. I believe he is at best a misguided and ineffective leader who stumbled through his presidency like he stumbled through college. But I don’t think he’s the kind of person who would order the execution of innocent American citizens just so he could start some wars. Was he happy 9/11 happened? Sure, it prevented the public from noticing what a bad president he was. Did he have anything to do with it? No. Believe it or not, at any given moment you can find twenty people who hate America enough to sacrifice their own lives to prove that point.
[del]Tits[/del] compelling evidence or GTFO.
Valete,
Vox Imperatoris
[off topic]Hey Vox, are you the TrekBBS? That’s where the whole TITS thing started IIRC. Some troll had posted an OP that everyone knew was going to be closed in seconds and the first poster to get in before the mod hammer came down decided to say the most offensive thing he could think of offhand which happened to be TITS.[/off topic]
Rosie! Rosie O’Donnell!..Is that really you?
No, that’s a *chan meme I was mocking. (A girl posts a picture of herself, followed by demands for her to post her “Tits or GTFO”.)
Valete,
Vox Imperatoris
ETA: I have long since escaped from all chans.
This is what I wrote on another thread:
There is more evidence to show that our government had more to do with 9/11 attack than anyone else.
Who was superintendent of WTC buildings? Marvin Bush was, and he took away patroling dogs a week before attack;
Why did Bldg 7 fall down? There were small fires on one or two floors, and no plane hit #7;
The BBC reporter on tv stated that bldg 7 had just collapsed 20 minutes or more before the building actually fell (which I believe was their “sign of allegiance” to the Bush conspirators); why wasn’t the reporter interrogated and beaten mercilessly?
After 1 and 2 collapse, how were gigantic beams protruding from basement cut on 35 degree angles just like a demolition would have done?
and further, why did experts say the dried molten drippings at the 35 degree cut composed of thermite and thermate, clearly a premeditated demolition;
6)three buildings hit the ground in free fall speed, each on its own footprint, each clearly showing explosions before each collapsed, totally against the laws of physics;
why did seismographs 20 miles away record explosions from WTC when only underground explosions could be recorded seismographically; 100 interviews from people saying there were explosions in the basement is not convincing to you, then who the hell do we believe if not the 100s running for their lives crying about explosions going off everywhere?
Where was Mr Sleaze, biting his lip off while listening to My Pet Goat and later lying about when he knew of the attacks;
Why was Larry Silverstein not interrogated after he said firemen said they “have to pull it”; Giulianni said firemen told him the same thing;
9a) Why isn’t Alianz Insurance Co under suspicion for money laundering for paying out Billions to Silverstein without much ado, when as we know, during Katrina insurance companies were unflinching turning claims away and even when Heath Ledger died his family had to fight for the insurance money; we are talking about pennies next to billions here. I conclude Alianz has got questions to answer.
In Madrid a steel skyscraper totally engulfed in flames for over 20 hours did not fall down and while it was burnt to a cinder and almost nothing remained except the steel frame, it was yet strong enough to support a huge crane at the very top to dismantle the steel structure; this does not impress us, wow, are we dense.
I have seen buildings collapse, and never never do they fall into their own footprint, nevver, unless demolitioned of course (that’s what this is all about although i have not been stating it) and never do crumble to dust even Before they hit the ground which is exactly what happened at the WTC, dust BEFORE they landed, my God, the torrents of debris particles were so forceful they overtook running victims;
How did 600 ton 30 foot long pieces of steel columns fly over 400 feet and lodge well into the 30th floor of buildings up the street, this from a building that is “collapsing”? Beams and large debris landing almost clear across the river to Hoboken;
Back to Tower 1 and 2, the South Tower burned for less than one hour before it fell, from what? There was plenty of black smoke indicating fires out not on, people actually standing in the plane crash hole for 1/2 hour before jumping but they weren’t on fire; and, so a plane had hit it, big deal. A plane is nothing but framed 1/4 inch aluminum, nothing but air space like a flying room plus two engines and a lot of fuel, but fuel cannot burn at high enough temperatures to melt steel no matter what any govt official tells you, this is scientific fact.
The Twin Towers and Bldg 7 also were the most over-built buildings in the world and you can check that with any architect worth his salt and until you actually walk around on the floors of those buildings you cannot appreciate their enormous size. A plane crashing into Tower 1 or 2 is like an angry bee stinging me in the arm, big deal.
Wake the hell up! We are under attack by our own govt. Why, I don’t really know but I’m thinking the worst more and more. No one could be so stupid as this administration, I think it’s conspiracy, a planned destruction of our country, that is the big picture, maybe for the New World Order; all the other stupid countries in the world are following suit as we now are well aware from this financial crisis that we are in: apparently the world over has been playing the same financial games, derivatives, hedge funds, taking bigger and bigger risks with other people’s money and getting farther away from real sense of responsibility. Call me crazy, I don’t care, but if you first investigate evidence, read books like “The New Pearl Harbor” and hear lectures by David Griffin, and Jim Fetzer and Kevin Ryan, Alex Jones and Steven Jones, watch so many free documentaries (see 911docs.net), and add up all the “mistakes” that day, you will come to the same conclusion: our govt is responsible and I could be in jail just for saying this. There’s no transparency in our government, another Hitler or worse may already be in our midst.
Yep, now I’m sure of it! The no-haiku style threw me there for a minute.
Normally we like to have actual citations of our facts when we accuse the government of bombing its own citizens. You don’t have any backup from reputable sources (or heck, even any disreputable sources).
And you didn’t even say “sheeple”. 
You did say “Wake…up!”, though.
3/10
Valete,
Vox Imperatoris
Honestly, were I a scheming overlord with evil plans to further my schemes for total world domination, and there were a group or individuals with the cunning and clarity of mind and purpose to see through my charades, I think my first step in shutting them down wouldn’t be jail. That’d be far too obvious. No, i’d pay people to pretend they were supporters of those groups, but who would express their support in a poor manner - so as to tarnish the reputations and ideas of my opponents by association. Since i’m (hypoethetically, of course) an intelligent overlord, it can reasonable be assumed that I would be able to and would hire the very best people for the job, with a fantastic success rate. Thus, it logically follows that in order to discover those in on the conspiracy, I should look for those people who;
Now, you might ask; surely it is possible that there are simply some innocent people, devoid of the decrepit touch of the conspiracy, who might genuinely see the world for what it is, yet lack the ability to convince others? Not so; to see through such diabolical schemes requires a distinctly above-average brain. Not only that, but the very traits required for understanding the conspiracy - clarity of mind, a keen analytical insight, an understanding of people, command of detail - are the very things which would also make a good speaker, someone convincing to others. Therefore, we can safely say that all those who claim to see the truth behind the conspiracy yet fail to convince others are logically conspirators themselves.
You know, it’s a funny thing. It seems that with 9/11, unlike a lot of other conspiracy hotbeds, a lot of the arguments for it seem to come from a very limited number of sources. So it’s amazing how many points by your average conspiracy theorist one can address by finding a source that examines just ONE of the favorites. Would this ever have been possible before the Internet?
Still, I know that even with links like that and this one, many true believers won’t even bother to rebut the points therein, just repeat their own secondhand claims. I guess that kind of person would be too scared to show why they think the opposition is wrong. It must be damaging to their psyche, as damaging as an object weighing thousands upon thousands of pounds would be if it hit another object while traveling at a very high rate of speed… Say, the speed that would be necessary to fly from the East Coast to California in anywhere near a reasonable time.
One question, though: where did the idea that “pull it” means “destroy with explosives” in any industry come from? Did the person who originated that just pull it out of his ass? [ETA: Hah - I just noticed that. I didn’t mean to do it, but I did. Funny.]
RT, your logic is airtight. But of course you’ve failed to appreciate that intelligent conspirators would have thought that part through too. You don’t execute a nearly flawless misdirection of national attention upon some poor Islamist scapegoat without being able to think a few moves ahead, now do you?
Naturally, in sowing the seeds of fake conspiracy to discredit the real Seekers, the evil cabal would not be so inept as to put forth only unpersuasive agents. Such agents could easily be singled out by your crude method. The key for them is to strike the right balance.
Hence, some of the persuasive ones are also part of the conspiracy. A smart junta will of course provide even these persuasive anti-conspirators with false details, so as to both mislead the real anti-conspirators and so as not to provide too much information about the real conspiracy.
Therefore, we can identify members of the conspiracy who are either wholly unpersuasive or who, among their barrage of facts, include some iffy ones.
Thus, if any of our OP’s facts can be challenged, he is a member of the conspiracy. QED. No need to refer to any subjective measures or persuasion.
How witty and wasteful a bwain.
Listening to you, I feel like I’m in the land of the walking dead.
I’m outta here.
Bwwwaaaaiiiiinnnnnnns!
Gee, please don’t go… Wait at least until the day crew sees this thread. Please?
Okay, look. Honestly. I ask every single person who espouses the “Bush was involved in the 9/11 attacks” the exact same question: what does the mechanism of collapse have to do with determining who was responsible for said collapse?
As for the arguments for/against a controlled demolition theory, they have been done and re-done on this board several times. A search wouldn’t kill you. However, if your goal here is to pin Bush and his crew as the guilty party in the 9/11 attacks, maybe focus your argument on that, rather than trying to prove there was a controlled demolition (or no flight 93), because the latter isn’t evidence of the former.
Was Bush complicit? Only insofar as being asleep at the switch when memos crossed his desk detailing bin Laden’s plans.
Beyond that, there’s a lot of conspiracy theories, tons of internet hearsay, but no real strong evidence. And many, if not most, of the theories and hearsay has been debunked time and time again. Honestly, the same arguments keep being raised day in and day out over the last seven years. Shouldn’t at least one of them be proven by now? And yet none are.
5, 4, 3, …
Might as well give this a shot.
Cite for your claim, then please add an explanation as to how that would be evidence there was a controlled demolition.
Saying the bomb-sniffing dogs were removed a week before the attack implies that enough explosives to fell a 110 story skyscraper were planted within a week. Controlled demolitions take far more planning and work within the building than that. Cite.
Small fires don’t produce this much smoke. They weren’t just on two floors, as that video clearly demonstrates. Smoke is being emitted from 10+ floors near the top. That’s just one video. There are plenty more that show the volume of smoke indicating far more than “small fires”.
As you say in your own post, firefighters pulled out of the building hours prior to collapse, because they thought collapse was imminent. The building had suffered severe structural damage and there were significant fires. It wasn’t safe to be in.
Deconstruction workers cut those beams to dispose of them. They were cleaning up the disaster site. In one of the previous threads we covered this, and someone linked a video actually showing a worker cutting through one of the beams.
Cite that provides evidence there was thermite or thermate? Also, while we’re on the topic of thermite, feel free to provide me with a video demonstration of someone using thermite charge to cut through a large steel support beam at a 35 degree angle.
Not free fall speed. Don’t believe everything you’re told.
Over 100 people were hanging out in the basements of the WTC buildings prior to their collapses? I don’t think so. “Explosions” from eye witnesses can mean any number of things, such as collapsing floors or snapping supports, things plummeting down elevator shafts, or actual combustible material exploding.
Explosions don’t mean anything unless they can be proven to be explosions of planted explosives intended to demolish a building. Feel free to provide evidence at any point.
Not sure what this has to do with anything.
Silverstein was relaying what a fire chief had told him. Also, cite a building demolition team that uses “pull it” to describe demolishing a building.
Cite that they were laundering money? Cite that Silverstein made a profit, after reconstruction, on the destruction of his leased property?
Steel buildings fall down, WTC1, 2, and 7 fell down. So a few other buildings collapsed differently. Why aren’t you asking why 3, 4, 5, and 6 didn’t collapse the way 1, 2, and 7 did?
The Windsor building was steel-reinforced concrete, 32 stories tall. It was a different building. Different buildings that are constructed differently behave differently under stress. That makes perfect sense to me.
You’re contradicting yourself. Did the buildings fall in to their own footprints, or was debris ejected so forcefully it overtook running victims?
Either way, “into their own footprint” is wrong. Notice damage to surrounding buildings and streets.
Again, did the buildings fall in to their own foot print, or not? Controlled demolitions are designed to not forcefully eject debris in to surrounding structures.
Black smoke can be generated by hot fires.
Steel doesn’t need to melt to lose strength. Also, before you start claiming that there was molten metal, first produce evidence that any existed.
Except a bee isn’t a jet liner, and your arm isn’t a building (nor are you). This is a meaningless comparison. The buildings were large, but we’ve figured out pretty efficient ways of demolishing them with very minimal initial damage.
I don’t. I’ve read a lot about this topic, probably at least as much as you have, and I don’t agree with you.
