Was Carl Karcher actually a racist/homophobe?

[lissener]

@DSYoungEsq

I am sorry, but mere discrimination against homosexuals is not homophobia. Homophobia is, at a minimum, a hatred of homosexuals.

Dude, you’re not new around here. This debate has happened probably dozens of times since you’ve been around. Unless you’re being ironic?

[lissener]

@Little Nemo

I’m guessing that DSYoungEsq is trying to make the distinction that homophobia is strictly the fear of homosexuals, which is the narrow literal meaning of the term. People might hate homosexuals without fearing them or they may have other emotional responses towards homsexuals that cause them to discriminate against them. Which is why the common meaning of the term homophobia is any general discrimination against homosexuals regardless of its specific motivation.

Discrimination against homosexuals is irrational, and based on baseless fears. The term is accurate, even on the literal level, in describing any prejudice against homosexuals *qua *homosexuals.

[Una_Persson]

FTR, the same sort of rumours fly around about Dave and Melinda (Wendy) Thomas of Wendy’s, except in those cases there’s little evidence of it being true. There is another rumour that Wendy was cut out of the family business for being a lesbian, which does not seem to have any backing. Wendy’s did pull adverts from the Ellen show after she came out (which could also have been due to the fact that when the show became all about her wrestling with her issues it also became decidedly un-funny, but I digress).

[DrDeth]

But just being a financial backer does not really mean he was a homophobe. (And let’s not sidetrack this with the same endless arguing here about “homophobe”- yes, it is a very imprecise term, let’s just go with that.)Some dudes are just super overprotective of kids and he may have been misled into backing a bill based solely on “it will protect our kids from known sexual deviates”. :rolleyes: In other words, it does sound like Briggs, the author of the Initiative was indeed a homophobe, but I have known dudes to be misled into backing something because they were not fully informed. Karcher was in Orange County at the time, he might well have just been doing something on the advice of a local pol that Karcher just wanted a favor from. And, that was freaken 1978. As far as Gay Rights goes that was practically the medieval period.

1978 California Proposition 6

So, sorry, you have to come up with more than he wrote a check in 1978. Did he write more checks for other similar laws? Or anything? It doesn’t seem like it. There seems to be nothing else.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Una Persson

Wendy’s did pull adverts from the Ellen show after she came out (which could also have been due to the fact that when the show became all about her wrestling with her issues it also became decidedly un-funny, but I digress).

Also, regarding that, Dave Thomas had sold his interest in the chain before the entire Ellen thing, and didn’t have any management control at the time.

[OneCentStamp]

@ivylass

The quote irks me. It seems to me they’re trying to tie in the fact that he’s a conservative Republican with his support of a homophobic measure.

One does not always lead to the other.

Well, they’re trying to tie in the fact that he was a lifelong conservative Republican with his support in 1978 of a homophobic measure. Perhaps the two were a little more overtly synonymous 30 years ago?

[Little_Nemo]

This is from the California Catholic Daily:

Mr. Karcher became well known in California as a supporter of conservative causes and of the Republican Party, contributing substantial sums to various pro-life and pro-family initiatives and candidates. Since 1978, when Mr. Karcher gave $1 million toward the passage of Prop. 6, which would have banned homosexuals from teaching in California public schools, Carl’s Jr. restaurant has been the object of a notoriously unsuccessful boycott. Although Prop. 6 failed at the ballot box, Mr. Karcher continued his support of pro-family and pro-life causes afterward.

This paper apparently supported the Brigg’s Initiative, so they’re not trying to trash his reputation. But they are saying that Karcher’s support of the initiative was part of a general opposition to gay rights (ie pro-family).

Well, they’re trying to tie in the fact that he was a lifelong conservative Republican with his support in 1978 of a homophobic measure. Perhaps the two were a little more overtly synonymous 30 years ago?

Ronald Reagan spoke out against the Brigg’s Initiative in 1978. So obviously it was not a universal conservative cause.