The star bit may have been based on one of several actual astronomical events:
Whether either of those were the actual “Star of Bethlehem,” served as inspiration for the Gospel writers, or just coincidence, is unknown.
That bit I don’t see as great evidence. At least as I understand it the first, Mark, was written at least three decades after the execution, and the others are thought to have basically elaborated on the story as recorded by Mark. Though there is also Paul’s “For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.” Would Mark have been aware of that?
Yes the story hangs together. Speaking with no intention of disrespect to Christian believers, but from a cynical secularist perspective, it’s just a juxtaposition of symbolism that reads out of a writer’s room. Or a political consultant’s …
Looking at it from my areligious political POV, I can imagine a planned political symbolism by Pilate to crush a movement at a meaningful time, and having it completely backfire into a powerful narrative birthing a movement and belief system that would change the world.
But I can also imagine Paul as a very politically shrewd individual, creating the version events that served the needs of the narrative best. I mean we aren’t the only era of fake news that gets believed more strongly than truth …
Sorry for the diversion. And apologies if I offended any Christian believers.
The Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke are referred to as the “Synoptic Gospels,” as they largely contain the same stories, often in the same order and similar language; many (most?) modern scholars now suspect that Mark was, indeed, the first of the three to be written.
The Gospel of John, on the other hand, differs substantially in content from the others, and was also likely the last of the four to be written.
I know this is FQ, but I thought that a different perspective might lighten the serious discussion:
Yes, in one of Josephus’s mention, it seems to have been edited later on by some monk to be more favorable to Jesus. The other mention " But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done;, which was kinda a throwaway mention, is considered by all to be authentic.
Tacitus also mentioned Jesus-
and a few others-
Mark is thought to be written around 70AD. And the three synoptic Gospels seem to be based upon the so-called Q text, a compilation of the saying of Jesus, likely written very shortly after His death, or even while still alive.
But the Gospel of John does not rely upon Q or Mark.
It probably DID happen during Sukkot! (Which is a fall holiday). At least that, and not Passover, is the time when Jews walk around waving palm fronds. My understanding is that at some point Christians decided that Jesus only visited Jerusalem once in his life, forcing them to put “Palm Sunday” in close proximity to Easter.
Nope, there is also the the cleansing of the Temple.
Unlikely. All four Gospels agree, and there was tradition, which came around nearly right after.
According to the Gospels, when Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey, the crowds welcomed Him by laying down cloaks and palm branches (Matthew 21:8-9). This act symbolized victory and reverence , as palms were often used in ancient cultures to honor royalty and heroes.
A key aspect that seems to be important is the Cleansing of the Temple. It’s a public spectacle that can easily lead to him being seen as a big enough threat to actually deal with, and placing him in a location where he can be dealt with.
Jesus seems out of character relative to the rest of the narrative, as well. The guy who pushes “turn the other cheek” and primarily preaches in parables and runs off and hides now gets actually violent and goes after the merchants in the temple area. It actually complicates the gospel message.
It seems far more likely that this incident is true. And once we have that incident, the rest works. Why would an itinerate preacher come to Jerusalem? Because he needs to give his offering for the Passover. When would he observe the merchants in the Temple area? During Passover.
And then this is what brings him to the attention of the priests in Jerusalem, where they have their seat of power, and why he is arrested while there, and ultimately crucified.
I would also propose you think about things the other way. Not that the Passover narrative was added because it made things more poignant, but that possibly the fact it happened at Passover is why the story resonated.
And of course, there’s no record in the Gospels, nor in any of the other early sources, of what time of year Jesus was born, so Christmas being celebrated in December is purely just a matter of symbology and influence from other religious traditions.
I’ve also heard the explanation that it was some astronomical phenomenon that would have been evident to scholars doing the appropriate calculations, but not at all to casual stargazers (even granted that casual stargazers back then were probably much more familiar with the heavens than most modern people).
Or, of course, it could have been completely invented from whole cloth.
Certainly more than once: The Gospels also tell of him impressing the priests in the temple with his erudition when he was a child. And all of the places Jesus is described as traveling to in the Gospels (with the exception of Egypt, very briefly in his infancy) are all basically, by modern standards, suburbs of Jerusalem: It’s to be expected that he probably visited the Big City many times in his life for various reasons.
Well, that certainly makes more sense. I guess I was misinformed.
I’ve read speculation that it might have actually been in the springtime, based on the shepherds keeping watch over their flocks at night, and the supposition that that would have primarily been when there were new lambs. But, again, that’s just speculation, and based on an element of the nativity story that may or may not have happened. (Also, I am not a shepherd by trade, so I have no idea if that would really have been when shepherds would have been in the fields at night.)
Well, as we’ve discussed before on this board, the Gospels likely greatly exaggerated the size of the “crowds” involved, but sure, that could explain where the palms come in.
Israel definitely has distinct rainy and dry seasons, with major holidays right around the transitions. Presumably the ancient origins of those holidays, to some extent, reflect anxiety about whether the rain would fall at the right time and not when it wasn’t wanted.
Actually, I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the reason we don’t have a “pure” 354-day lunar year like the Muslims is specifically to make sure Passover always falls in early spring.
Well and that the symbolism of Passover was not lost on Pilate as well, but his attempt to control the narrative did not spin out as he planned. Also very plausible to me.
There’s nowhere in the world where the cycle of the solar year is completely irrelevant. It’s just not equally relevant everywhere. Worrying about when the rains will stop isn’t as important as worrying about when the snow will stop.
For anyone who missed it, here’s the Straight Dope (actually, a Staff Report) about when and by whom the gospels were written:
I disagree. Drought is no less scary than cold. If the rainy season has ended and there hasn’t been enough rainfall, it’s going to be a long, hard year ahead.
But in places that get snow, you’re often worrying about both at once.
Mostly. Hippolytus did calculate Christmas, based upon certain assumptions. Fairfield University ThinkSpace — Calculating Christmas: Hippolytus and December...
Hm. Reading through that, it looks like the key assumption was that Jesus was conceived on Passover.