I didn’t say that. I said that everything is an expense related to his stay. Which it is. The guest is benefiting from the light bill being paid. From the property taxes being paid. From the mortgage being paid. The guest is certainly under zero obligation to pay them - that’s what being a guest is. But all of those expenses are directly related to the benefit the guest is receiving - that of a warm dry hospitable place to stay for 2 weeks. If you’re unable to extend a $40 generosity in return, then you should be able to communicate that - but I have a hard time thinking that might be the case. “Thanks for letting us invade your home and personal space for 14 days, but that $40 is a real hardship on our part.”
$40 for a really close and generous relative?
Just smile, and shake his hand. If he offers, say “are you sure?” before accepting.
Now if said brother was a known tightwad and welsher, then that would be different.
I will say that when my mom used to stay with us for extended periods (she’s since passed away), I began to notice how I had to replace the TP rolls much more frequently. It’s an expense that you don’t notice, but still adds up.
But I would probably not have asked for the $40 back. In my family, it’s assumed that small amounts like that would all come out in the wash. Seems very nitpicky and pinch-pennyish.
Sure, but it is inappropriate for anyone to consider any of those things you list above as transactional. That’s not how we live together as a society. If you come visit me, the fact that you incidentally are benefiting from me having paid the water bill so there is indoor plumbing does not put you in a state of financial obligation to me. If you came to visit me, and I said “give me $10, because I’ve been pretty generous by allowing you to use my electricity” I’d expect to lose a friendship pretty quickly.
(Yes, bringing gifts as a thank you for hosts is a cultural thing, but it’s a far cry from a host asking for a cash gift)
Like I said, based on the OP this is probably not an important amount of money for either party, the differing assumptions between parties is understandable, and this isn’t a big deal any way anyone decides to slice it, but there is nothing in the general social contract that assumes that a guest is obligated to turn over petty cash when the host asks for it because the host has already been generous by allowing the guest to benefit from the fact that the host paid the rent.
That’s not what happened in the OP, and literally no one has suggested otherwise in this thread.
Without trying to either:
- Junior mod or
- Threadjack unnecessarily …
I offer this brief sidebar:
As you were ![]()
Maybe I am misunderstanding then. This:
. . . reads to me like you’re suggesting the OP should have understood his $40 was the expected generosity due in return for his brother’s paying for things like his own taxes and electricity bill that the OP was benefiting from.
If that’s not your point I’m sorry for missing what the actual point is.
A generosity isn’t something that should be expected from someone - that’s the very nature of the word, isn’t it? But as a guest, I think you should be willing to be generous as well. Covering $40 when your host doesn’t have any cash on hand seems pretty in line with that.
Gotcha. But to me the core of the OP’s question is: “without having explicitly stated that the $40 is a gift, was it reasonable for me to assume that it was a temporary loan, or was it reasonable for my brother to assume that it was a gift?”
To which my answer is simply “Yes, both are reasonable, but refusal to pay the money back when it’s clear that it wasn’t intended as a gift is the biggest ethical and social ‘no-no’ that’s happened as presented by the OP.”
Anyway, I don’t mean to turn this into a back and forth. I guess I don’t disagree with your core perspective, I just disagree with how that connects to the question at hand.
My Grandmother was a Davies, and used the term herself. I am proud of my Welsh heritage and even speak a few phrases (but I will admit that pronouncing some of the villages is beyond me!).
My takeaway from this post is: Why tip the construction workmen? When I have work done in my home, an estimate is agreed to beforehand. Why tip workmen for doing what you agreed to pay them to do?
I honestly don’t think you shpuld have asked, or at least, I wouldn’t have asked, because asking about money is awkward and harmony is more important than $40. But I think he should have paid her back because it wasn’t her covering the expense, it was her covering for him. And if your parents were there it would be appropriate for your mom to descretely remind him because that’s what moms do.
But if I was your wife and he forgot, I wouldn’t care.
It’s a little weird that he didn’t pay you back without asking, it’s a little weird that he didn’t pay you back when you mentioned it, and it’s a little weird that you asked in the first place.
mmm
You didn’t give him any money, your wife did. It was up to her to ask for it back if it was important.
Also, the most important factor here, who is older you or your brother? If you are the older brother then what did you expect from that little pest? If he is the older brother you’re lucky he didn’t take $40 and make you eat it.
thanks so much for the great responses. It seems there is quite a range of opinions!
I’m still not sure whether I was wrong or not, but at least I feel better about being uncertain ![]()
Actually, it’s interesting that you brought this up. I don’t live in the US and haven’t for a long time. Every time I visit, I feel that I am getting bled dry by all the demands for tips, especially this time around as everything has become so expensive.
I don’t know whether it is normal to tip workmen or not, but I guess one of the questions in the back of my mind was why neither my brother nor his wife had $40 in cash. Sure, I know that people use cash less and less often, but if you are in the habit of giving cash tips, wouldn’t it make sense to have cash around*, rather than having to ask someone who doesn’t even live in the country?
(ETA, I mean, it is possible someone might not have cash in their wallet at a given moment, but at home, wouldn’t there be some lying around somewhere?)
Funny you should mention that …
It would be simple to say, in the form of a really broad generalization, that our ridiculously ubiquitous tipping culture is the result of employers who don’t want to pay employees what they’re worth.
It’s also a subtle way to lower the apparent pricing of your goods and services.
When I worked in an e-commerce role, it was pretty amazing how many people went through the purchasing process, screen after screen, only to “drop off” (ie, abandon the order) when they got to the (first) page that displayed the cost of shipping.
I agree, this is an important point in the OP. Why tip the construction workers. Is it a regional practice?
I live in the US and I’ve never tipped the workmen, except for the house movers I tipped them once.
But I’m not tipping the appliance repair man, or the house painters, the construction team or the roofers. Neither am I fetching them drinks and snacks.
…yeah, that’s how I read it.
I don’t think it was wrong to ask, but I wouldn’t have done it, especially since I had just stayed at his house and it’s my brother. It just wouldn’t have occurred to me to expect it back. Anytime I stay at someone’s house, I’m looking for ways to show my appreciation for their hospitality.