Moderator Note
Clothahump, religious jabs like this are not appropriate for GQ. I am making this a note instead of a warning, but don’t do this again.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
The idea of Iraq as the birthplace of civilization is by no means confined to “Bible believers”. Do you remember learning about the “Fertile Crescent” and Mesopotamia back in school? Ancient Iraq was very definitely one of the birthplaces of civilization.
The general region of Mesopotamia (the name means “in the middle of/between rivers”) was literally the region where civilization (i.e. agriculture, sedentary culture and the rise of city states) began.
That’s why I added “some others”. I’m not being argumentative but Africa and Asia figure into the debate.
In school (decades ago) we learned of multiple “cradles of civilization”, including the Indus River valley, Mesoamerica, the Nile River Valley and China, but ancient Iraq was considered the most important. And this idea was completely independent of Bible belief.
The biblical Abraham’s house is in Iraq. Maybe that is what the OP was thinking of. I saw it when I was there. It is close to a pyramid for some sun god or other, but I was fascinated by Abraham’s house. Something that old, and that well known to actually see in person.
SSG Schwartz
It’s not that old. It was built by Saddam Hussein in 1999. It was, however, built in one of the orginal house foundations from ruins of ancient Ur, where the Bible says Abraham was from. The “pyramid” you saw was a ziggurat – a temple to a moon god. That was real.
There is actually no historical evdience for Abraham outside the Bible, and most modern ANE historians and archaeologists regard him as a purely legendary character.
I figured the best way to get this information was to go to the source. So I asked my friend Jesus. He told me he was born in Queens.
Pretty much. Oh, sure there could have been some tribal elder by that name, whose memory inspired the legends, but it’s pretty much all legend. Same with Noah.
In fact, even King David is almost entirely legendary, except possibly the name. (There’s reference to a “House of David” so a King David can be assumed, if not proven)
I think the prevailing consenus is that there was probably a David (as you noted, the Tel Dan Stele seems to indicate at least a “House of David”), but that he was probably just a small, local chieftain or warlord, not somebody who controlled anything like the kind of kingdom decribed in the Bible.
I’m with your friends.
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If this was Great Debates, then I’d agree that the preponderance of posts has demonstrated that most posters believe he was not born in modern-day Iraq.
But this is General Questions. Relevant evidence should be weighed and evaluated. I’m hoping that ih8hwy17 will return to explain WHY he thinks as he does.
No, a Capricorn.
Ecce capra?
Look at the goat?
The church fathers cut that part out of the Gospels. Very unsavory.
Well, no. If we only need to shift the map by around 200 miles, Washington is probably still born in the US (or maybe the Atlantic) and Hitler somewhere in Europe, maybe even in Germany.
Could we have a cite for this? A cousin of mine who was deployed in Iraq was very excited about all of the pictures he brought back of the site, and excitedly showed them to us.
Oh, you lying heretic! He told me he’s from Oaxaca.
Ask your cousin for me if he likes the Golden Gate Bridge, because I’d be happy to sell it to him cheap if he wants it.