alterego, I don’t know what you know of Christianity, but I don’t know of any form of it that doesn’t equate Jesus with God. And I don’t know of any religion other than Christianity which speaks of saints, so I feel safe in assuming that the OP question comes in the context of Christianity.
In that context, calling the divinity of Jesus a “farfetched claim” is ridiculous. Such ramblings, and space-cadet explanations like “…the reason being is because he is Jesus!” are what I would label as unhelpful drivel.
I totally agree with Gary T. It is rubbish to say that “his claim that Jesus is God is privy to large amounts of speculation”. Speculation by whom? Only Christian leaders (depending on the denomination) can declare someone a saint, so the OP was obviously asked in a religious context- one in which it it dogma, and taken as a matter of Faith, that Jesus is [the Son of] God.
I hope you’re not really waiting on a cite that will prove once and for all that Jesus is God, or that God even exists.
Oh- that is: “Only Christian leaders (depending on the denomination) can declare someone a Christian saint”
I don’t know if other religions have actual “saints”, but it’s best to be safe.
The stance of the Church is that a saint is anyone who’s in Heaven. So if you ask me, my grandfather is probably a saint. When someone is canonized by the Church, that doesn’t make that person a saint, it’s just the Church’s way of saying “We know for sure that this particular person is a saint”. Since all Christian sects accept that Jesus is in Heaven, He is technically a saint, although as other posters mentioned, it would be rather redundant to refer to him as such.
The requirement that a person have died isn’t really strict. According to Catholic theology, the Virgin Mary never died (she was assumed bodily into Heaven, without having to die in the process), and Michael and the other archangels were never exactly “alive” in the human sense to begin with, yet one frequently hears reference to St. Mary or St. Michael. The requirement is just that one be in Heaven, and the typical way for a person to end up in Heaven is for him or her to die on Earth.
What is it that is so “debased” about my Church? What is it that makes my Priests “debased”? What is it that makes my Bishops “debased”? What is it that makes those with whom I share Communion “debased”? Who are you to sit in judgment of my Church? Please do tell. Where were you ordained? Who was the Hierarch? At what Cathedral do you sit? Who are you to claim that the Orthodox Church is “debased”? Upon what basis do you claim that Orthodoxy is “debased”?
It is only “daft” to out-of-touch pedants who cannot grasp the plain truth that modern words are NOT identical to antecedents. It does NOT MATTER what the derivative source for the modern English word “saint” is. What matters is that, in MODERN English, “saint” and “holy” have distinct meanings, a distinction that is not necessarily and automatically preserved in all other manifestations of Christianity.
Having posted at least one snide comment about other denominations in every post you’ve made, I’m not sure why you are taking umbrage–particularly by deliberately twisting his comments to something UnoMundo did not say.
The comment was that the pronunciation was debased from the older languages. One can have a different argument regarding the development or debasement of languages, however taking insult for your church when none was offered (unless you believe that the language is the church) is pretty ironic given the insults you freely hurl at other beliefs.
That said, I suspect that UnoMundo’s comments are in better keeping with the Straight Dope. There are numerous words in English that tie back etymologically to '[symbol]agios[/symbol], (not least among them hagiography) and in the interest of fighting ignorance, it would seem that at least a reference to the word as it is transliterated from Koine would go further toward fighting ignornance that using a transliteration of only one of the several different derived words in various modern languages.
Jesus is not recognized as part of/form of God by all religions. In Islam, he is considered a Prophet. (A very important term.) ?Could someone familiar with that faith tell us if that automatically makes him a saint in Islam?
Less seriously, The Church of Latter Day Saints call all recognized members “saints”. Since they also believe in baptizing the dead, etc., has Jesus ever been inducted into the LDS, and is therefore a saint in their eyes?
Thank you, tomndebb, that’s precisely what I meant. But note please that my user name is UnuMondo.
As far as pronunciation goes, the Greek Orthodox Church gets a lot of criticism from classicists because it’s members choose to pronounce Koine Greek with phonetic values that it didn’t not acquire until – in some cases – a thousand years after the foundation of the Church. Just as the old British pronunciation (which was a monstrosity, really) has been dropped in favour of the reconstructed pronunciation, ideally the Greek Orthodox church should do the same. However, it is too entrenched in its traditions to do so, just like the Roman Catholic Church, so I guess it will remain the butt of classicists’ jokes.
My feelings about the Church’s pronunciation have nothing to do with a bias against the Church in general. It’s a fine institution.
But anyway, Dogface, you still seem ignorant of how “saint” is actually used. English is one of the few languages where there is actually a divide between “saint” and “holy”. Within the Catholic Church in general languages are spoken the words are identical. In Spanish one would say “Miercoles fue el dia de Santa Isabel” just the same as one could say “El amor es santo.” The English language alone does not determine the general trend of the Catholic Church.
Since the OP wants to know if Jesus was ‘made a saint,’ then that implies the official Roman Catholic process of canonization, where the Church recognizes someone to be in heaven.
As long as the canonical process has been in place, Jesus has not been recognized as a saint through this process.
However, we have two things to consider:
Before this canonical process was in place, many people have been proclaimed by the Christians to be saints for centuries. For example, Mary, Peter, and Polycarp were never officially canonized, yet, they are recognized saints. Thus, if one were to ask, “have Christians since the beginning of Christianity regarded Jesus in the fullness of his humanity and divinity resurrected in the fullness of everlasting life in heaven?” Then the answer would be yes, and therefore, Jesus is a saint.
Besides the narrow definition of ‘saint’ as used above, the word ‘saint’ comes from the Latin for ‘holy.’ St. Paul referred to the Christians he was writing to as ‘holy ones,’ that is, as ‘saints.’ Thus, anything which is ‘holy’ is ‘sainted.’ In English, we have a separate word for holy and for saint. Other languages don’t. Santa Cruz and Santa Ana are translated Holy Cross and Saint Ann. Thus, San Jesús can be either Holy Jesus or Saint Jesus. Same with “Sanctus Iesus” found in Augustine’s writings can be translated Holy Jesus or Saint Jesus.
In the same way, Saint Mary could very well be Holy Mary. In the ‘Hail Mary,’ the part that goes “Holy Mary, Mother of God…” is in Latin, “Sancta Maria, Mater Dei…” But Saint Mary is also translated Sancta Maria in Latin. Sancta = Saint = Holy.
So, by the narrow definition of saint as defined by the modern canonical process, no, Jesus was never made a saint. By the ancient tradition of saint being any holy person, or, any human the Church recognizes as being in heaven, then yes, Jesus is a recognized saint.
My understanding is that the main role of saints (at least in Roman Catholic belief) is that they are intermediaries between people and God. Jesus, being God, doesn’t require an intermediary to himself.
While that is a view that some Protestants have created, that is not a teaching of the Catholic Church. Saints are not intermediaries. They are role models and they may be asked to intercede with their own prayers (just as one might ask one’s own family or pastor or congregation to offer intercessory prayers), but they are not intermediaries.