Was Jesus Literate?

[Blake]

@aceplace57

He was a carpenter before his ministry. Carpenters us basic geometry, trig etc. all the time.

No.

The word *translated *as carpenter is, as Diogenes notes, tekton. And as Dio also notes, tekton means “day labourer”. Jesus and Joseph were not carpenters in the modern or even medieval sense of “artisan that works with wood”. They were carpenters in the sense of “construction worker”.

These were impoverished men who gathered every morning in the village square. Anybody who needed work done would come down to the square and hire them at a negotiated rate. Today they might do 12 hours work for real carpenters and stonemasons assisting in building a house. Tomorrow they might finish that job and have no work for half a day. The following day could see them picking grapes, and the day after that they might be clearing stones from land. In the harvesting and sowing seasons work would have been plentiful and the wages high for the best workers. In winter, times would have been very lean indeed, and it was in winter that most people did their building because labour was cheap.

These men had little need for literacy or numeracy, and less opportunity to learn. They were told what to do by the real tradesmen and businessmen. They were truly unskilled labourers.

The image of Jesus and Joseph as carpenters working with wood is a misconception. While they may well have worked with wood at times, they may also have gone years between doing such jobs. There is a good reason why Jesus’ parables are so full of stories of men doing harvesting work or making mud bricks or similar menial tasks. That is the type of work Jesus would have been most familiar with.
So the idea that Jesus must have been literate and numerate because he was a carpenter has no basis in scripture or history.

[ftg]

@Diogenes the Cynic

According to scholarly estimates, 95%-98% of the Palestinian state was illiterate at the time of Jesus. He also belonged to a peasant class (actually a sub-peasant class as a tekton, which was basically a subsistence level, day labor class) who would not have had any opportunity for or exposure to education growing up. …

I don’t think this is at well supported.

His mother’s cousin’s husband was a priest who was on a rotation list to perform duties in the temple.

Luke 1:5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.

Luke 1:8 Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, 9 he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.

There is every reason to believe that John the Baptist would have followed in his father’s footsteps and studied to become a priest.

Many also believe that James the Just was a sibling (or at least a family member) of Jesus. He became the leader of the Christian Church in Jerusalem after the crucifixion. There is some evidence that he wrote the Epistle of James. All of which suggests a quite literate person.

You throw in things like the family’s ability to flee to Egypt and come back, etc. and you have a description of a not exactly poorest-of-the-poor family.

Another source is the Talmud which describes Jesus as “near to the kingship (or kingdom)”.

Jesus was learned enough to quote both canonical and non-canonical books. (It’s interesting that many of St. Paul’s few quotes of Jesus are of Jesus quoting the the Torah.) While Jesus could have memorized them after hearing them, it seems more likely given what we know that Jesus had studied the Torah directly.

BTW, here’s the quote about Jesus writing:

John 8: 6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.

[Ludovic]

@GuanoLad

Perhaps he was dyslexic, and all this time he was just very fond of his dog.

Gives new meaning to the term Son of Sam.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@blindboyard

Diogenes seems to have forgotten that the Bible describes Jesus as having lived most of the first decade or more of his life in Egypt, doesn’t say where but the largest Jewish population in Egypt at the time was the well-established colony in Alexandria which had been given equal rights with Greeks by Alexander and later Ptolemy on the city’s foundation.

The Gospel of Matthew is the only book in the Bible which says Jesus went to Egypt, and it does not say he spent ten years there. It doesn’t say how long he was there, but says he returned after the death of Herod, which was in 4 BCE. That particular story is fiction anyway.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Giles

Given the widespread use of Greek throughout the eastern Roman Empire, including Egypt, it is extremely likely that everyone spoke at least a little Greek. Note that the Gospels and Acts were written originally in Greek – partly because Luke was Greek, and partly to reach a wide audience. So it is practically certain that a Jewish prophet, as described in the New Testament, was fluent in Greek.

The New Testament was written in Greek becaiuse it was wriiten by Gentiles to a Gentile audience. It’s true Greek was the lingua franca of the time, but the extent to which it was known and used by the Jewish underclases in the Judea and Galilee is unknown. Even if some common knowledge of Greek was possible (even likely), that does not mean they were literate in it.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@ftg

I don’t think this is at well supported.

His mother’s cousin’s husband was a priest who was on a rotation list to perform duties in the temple.

Luke 1:5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.

Luke 1:8 Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, 9 he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.

There is every reason to believe that John the Baptist would have followed in his father’s footsteps and studied to become a priest.

Many also believe that James the Just was a sibling (or at least a family member) of Jesus. He became the leader of the Christian Church in Jerusalem after the crucifixion. There is some evidence that he wrote the Epistle of James. All of which suggests a quite literate person.

You throw in things like the family’s ability to flee to Egypt and come back, etc. and you have a description of a not exactly poorest-of-the-poor family.

Another source is the Talmud which describes Jesus as “near to the kingship (or kingdom)”.

Jesus was learned enough to quote both canonical and non-canonical books. (It’s interesting that many of St. Paul’s few quotes of Jesus are of Jesus quoting the the Torah.) While Jesus could have memorized them after hearing them, it seems more likely given what we know that Jesus had studied the Torah directly.

BTW, here’s the quote about Jesus writing:

John 8: 6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.

It is a given that the Gospel accounts imply that he was literate, however, the Gospel accounts are not historically plausible. If you believe the Gospels. then Jesus was magic and the discussion ends right there. The reality of the social class he is described as having come from, though, is that it is vanshingly unlikely he would have ever had access to education. That was time and expense that families in his position could not afford. Even the physical materials for an education (a physical school or synagogue, books, writing materials, parchment) would not have been found in a town like Nazareth and would have been prohibitively expensive.

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

The New Testament was written in Greek becaiuse it was wriiten by Gentiles to a Gentile audience. It’s true Greek was the lingua franca of the time, but the extent to which it was known and used by the Jewish underclases in the Judea and Galilee is unknown. Even if some common knowledge of Greek was possible (even likely), that does not mean they were literate in it.

(My comment supposes a nothing-but-human Jesus)

But wouldn’t living in the north give you a better chance of acquiring Greek since it was closer to more Hellenised areas? I’m not implying quoting Plato or anyhting like that, but enough to go by and strike simple chat?

As to reading he is mentioned doing it at least once. Of course hat would mean Hebrew rather than his native Aramaic. He almost certainly didn’t have to know how to write (or need to), most people didn’t.

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

It is a given that the Gospel accounts imply that he was literate, however, the Gospel accounts are not historically plausible. If you believe the Gospels. then Jesus was magic and the discussion ends right there. The reality of the social class he is described as having come from, though, is that it is vanshingly unlikely he would have ever had access to education. That was time and expense that families in his position could not afford. Even the physical materials for an education (a physical school or synagogue, books, writing materials, parchment) would not have been found in a town like Nazareth and would have been prohibitively expensive.

I don’t think “magic” is the necessary explanation for a specific person literacy. Your comment on the social reality of the time is spot on, however there’s always the chance of say spending summers with Zechariah and learning a bit here and a bit there. While formal education is almost certainly an impossibility, informal one is not that unlikely.
This of course doesn’t prove that Jesus could read.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Actually, in the passage where he is described as reading from the Bible, the quotations used are from the Greek Septuagint.

It’s true he lived relatively close to the cities of the Greek Decapolis (thought it was basically on the other side of the Sea of Galilee, it was walkable, and Mark says he went there during his ministry). He also lived only about 4 miles away from the upscale Jewish city of Sepphoris, which had a synagogue and access to education. This access is not likely to have been available to the son of a tekton, though. It would have cost money and time which the family didn’t have. While it’s more than possible that Joseph/Jesus could have walked up to Sepphoris occasionally (or frequently) to find work, that’s all they would have been doing - working, physical labor as Blake described. The only day off they would have had would have been the Sabbath, during which time, of course, they would have stayed home.

[John_Mace]

@Blake

Jesus and Joseph were not carpenters in the modern or even medieval sense of “artisan that works with wood”. They were carpenters in the sense of “construction worker”.

These were impoverished men who gathered every morning in the village square. Anybody who needed work done would come down to the square and hire them at a negotiated rate.

Yeah man, I know that guy! He’s this guy, you know, who hangs out at Home Depot every morning, man. But his name ain’t Jesus, man. His name is HAY-sus! His wife, Maria, she makes the best *tomales *you ever tasted, man!

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

That actually isn’t very far away from the kind of social class we’re talking about.

[John_Mace]

I know. I’m just trying to make that fact more accessible to the masses.

[AshenLady]

Of course he was literate. Had to be, as a bar mitzvah boy!

[Sampiro]

I can see how a revisionist novelist might construe that Mary, the daughter of a well-to-do family that includes high ranking priests, finds herself pregnant and unwed and her family, to avoid scandal, betroths her to a guy who works for them. True he’s much older than she is and he’s not educated, BUT it’s better than having an illegitimate grandchild. This one explain having a father who was a laborer, a cousin who’s a temple priest, and having the ability to read all at the same time.

Robert “I CLAUDIUS” Graves probably did the most revisionist account not to make Jesus an ancient astronaut or whatever. He made Jesus the son of Antipater, who was the oldest son and heir presumptive of Herod the Great, through a secret marriage. When (actual historical event) Herod had Antipater strangled, in the novel Mary lies about her son’s paternity. Later chroniclers anagramize “son of Antipater” into 'son of a virgin" somehow (Antipatros and Parthenos come into play IIRC, but it’s been 20+ years since I read it and it’s not one of his better works).

If he were like most Jews of his time rich or poor he probably lived in a very extended family setting with all manner of aunts and uncles and cousins within an easy walk, so if one could read they probably could have taught him, especially since it’s an employable skill. Besides, social class and norms don’t prove somebody wouldn’t be able to do something. In American history there were slaves and Indians who managed to learn how to read and write (for some of them how they learned remains a mystery) or pick up other languages. The Pilgrims for example were famously taken aback when Squanto walked up to them and spoke to them in fluent English (due to having been abducted by sailors and lived in Europe for several years before returning) and John Smith had been astonished earlier in Virginia to find a couple of old Indians who were conversational in Spanish (due to a Catholic mission that had briefly existed a generation before before the Indians rubbed it out).

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Sampiro, the Graves novel you’re thinking of is King Jesus, not I, Claudius.

You mention scribing as an emplyable skill, which it was, but one notable thing about scribes in antiquity (and even into medievel times) was that sometimes even they weren’t truly literate. Some of them could make a living simply by copying texts letter for letter, but they didn’t really know what the words said. They were basically just copying the lines. I think Ehrman mentions that in Misquoting Jesus (or maybe I read it somewhere else), but apparently you can find some strange copy errors in old manuscripts because the copyist didn’t actually know what he was reading.

[Sampiro]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Sampiro, the Graves novel you’re thinking of is King Jesus, not I, Claudius.

I meant to mention that. I called him Robert “I CLAUDIUS” Graves for the benefit of those who aren’t familiar with his name but know his most famous work. He wrote KING JESUS in large part from the research he did for the Claudius novels.

@Diogenes the Cynic

You mention scribing as an emplyable skill, which it was, but one notable thing about scribes in antiquity (and even into medievel times) was that sometimes even they weren’t truly literate. Some of them could make a living simply by copying texts letter for letter, but they didn’t really know what the words said. They were basically just copying the lines. I think Ehrman mentions that in Misquoting Jesus (or maybe I read it somewhere else), but apparently you can find some strange copy errors in old manuscripts because the copyist didn’t actually know what he was reading.

There were also a lot more people who could read than could read and write. It’s almost hard to grasp this concept- how you could do one without the other- but I imagine the expense of papyrus and other writing materials- even wax tablets- played a part- kind of expensive to practice your writing.

[John_Mace]

@Sampiro

There were also a lot more people who could read than could read and write. It’s almost hard to grasp this concept- how you could do one without the other- but I imagine the expense of papyrus and other writing materials- even wax tablets- played a part- kind of expensive to practice your writing.

Or, you just didn’t have the need to write much even if you found yourself reading regularly. I spent a lot of time in Japan, and learned to read quite a few Kanji. But I never had to write Kanji, and could maybe write 1/10 of the number that I could read. And those would be the simple ones.

[ftg]

Jesus, to me, was obviously a well educated person. He knew a lot of stuff. Not just the Torah, but how to argue with Rabbis, knew some pretty sophisticated theological stuff, things like that.

This isn’t someone who cut wood for 30 years, took a dip in a river and became the Messiah.

Not you typical dirt poor peasant.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Assuming any of that stuff is historically accurate, it’s possible to be intelligent, orally knowledgabe of scripture and verbally adept in debates without being literate or formally educated.

[Sampiro]

@ftg

This isn’t someone who cut wood for 30 years, took a dip in a river and became the Messiah.

Why do I read this with Eric Idle’s voice? “I mean if I was to go around shouting the redeemer of all mankind has arrived and the prophecies are all fulfilled and kingdom of God is at hand every time some half literate woodcutter got sweaty and decided to take a dip where a homeless guy was standing they’d put me away!”