Was Jesus's execution inevitable?

Great Debates
41

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
Does Jesus no longer exist? If he does exist, where is the sacrifice?

What did he teach that was not taught by previous teachers?

What do you mean “we?” I had nothing to do with it. Nor did anyone alive today. Why does all of humanity bear the responsibility of a tiny subset of one population, all of whose members died two thousand years ago?
[/QUOTE]

Answer to question 1.
According to what I was taught he is now in heaven playing street hockey or something.

Answer to question 2.
What I am trying ot get across, rather poorly I admit because it’s been awhile since I was reading about this kind of stuff, is that humans back than could have had a teacher longer than just the 3 years if he had lived longer. Although since his purpose was to be sacrificed then he was supposed to die at that time and we were only supposed to get 3 years of teaching sooooo…I don’t know. It’s confusing. My official answer is “I don’t know I’m just offering an opinion.”

Answer to question 3.
I do not know what other teachers may have taught but the generalness of what he tought, loving each other, helping each other out and don’t stab people with sticks was most likely covered by previous teachers.

Answer to question 4.
By “we” I mean the people back then and as a generalization of humanity as a whole because of the loss of potential information that you and I, all these years later that people back then would have learned and passed down to us, may have gotten screwed out of if he had lived longer. I apologize for the confusion.

I agree that you and I had nothing to do with anything and are getting screwed for the actions of people 2000 years ago. I really dislike the idea of original sin and the “children” getting screwed because of the sins of the “father” type of thing.

Also don’t forget we are all getting screwed because of Eve. If it wasn’t for her we would have a “get out jail free, pass go, collect $200 and go straight to heaven” card. We got a bum deal out of that.

Adam should have invented divorce, kicked her out of eden and then asked god for a new wife.

42

FWIW, Contra, I’ve been waiting for a response to your question too.

Human’s concept of a sacrifice is something of significant value that’s given over permanently.

God not only knew that Jesus was going to be killed. He also knew that he was going to come back to life and then ascend up into the heavens to sit at his right-hand side. Paying the check when you know that you will be reimbursed shortly afterwards does not constitute a sacrifice.

43

There are really many different schools of thought concerning Jesus’ execution and what exactly that accomplished, not just the typical “substitutionary atonement” understanding that most conservative Protestants and Roman Catholics accept.

For example:

Moral Influence- Jesus’ death was a natural outcome of how he lived his life so under this view, Jesus’ execution was indeed inevitable. His death and resurrection are meant to inspire us to live like Jesus.

Christus Victor- Similarly to the Moral Influence view, this understanding also sees Jesus’ death as inevitable, but not because of anything God had ordained. Jesus died because the powers on this earth (i.e. the Roman Empire) wanted to destroy him completely. He took everything Rome could dish out on him, but his resurrection was God’s triumph over evil and violence, showing that nothing can suppress the message of hope God has for humanity and effectively rescuing (ransoming) humanity from the bondage of sin.

Those two (or a combination of the two) are generally taught in mainline/progressive Protestant circles. I personally like the Christus Victor metaphor. It makes sense when we remember Jesus was called “The Lamb of God”- lambs were sacrificed by Jews for Passover, reminding them of their own liberation from bondage.

Note that the Christus Victor view was the dominant understanding of the crucifixion for the first 1,000 years of Christianity and is still taught by the Eastern Orthodox church. The Moral Influence view was first articulated in the 12th century.

So was Jesus’ execution inevitable? Yes, I believe so, because he lived in a way that challenged everyone and still challenges us today. Do I think God “needed” him to die in order to forgive our sins? Well, I think it’s a very good metaphor, but taking it so literally as to see it as a formula for forgiveness is, in my opinion, not the best idea.

44

I will try to answer this in the last snarky way I can.

:: deep breath :

Yes, it was inevitable. That’s the way the mythic narrative goes. Since the events of the Passion are no more than myth, no other resolution was possible; nobody had invented deconstructionism yet.

45

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
That is in direct opposition to the raindog’s post that I quoted, and as such, not really responsive.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry about that.

46

[QUOTE=gigi]
Sorry about that.
[/QUOTE]
No prob.

47

[QUOTE=baronsabato]
The Moral Influence view was first articulated in the 12th century.
[/QUOTE]

Didn’t Pelagius argue something like that in the fourth century?

48

As I see it; to live as Jesus did,(according to some dopers and other Christians) would be next to impossible, He started out with perfect parents, he had no siblings(According to RC beliefs) He never got sick, had no wife to disagree with, He had all power to use at his command, When He needed money for taxes He had Peter go get a fish that had the money in its mouth. He knew he was going to be betrayed, but let it happen. He knew he was going to die for just a few hours, and could stop the suffering at any time he wished. It seems to me He had many advantages the rest of the humans do not have.

The Buddah taught people to love each other when he told them to live the Golden Rule. There was no reward offered of a better life after they were dead, but in treating others right while they were alive would help all people.

Monavis

49

Pretty much, in much the same way that Butch and Sundance had to die, as Thelma and Louise had to get the T-Bird airborne and Glenn Close had to be killed off. There is only one satisfactory conclusion for any drama.