Was Marilyn Monroe murdered?

[septimus]

Google comes up with a newspaper account:

In 1985, after years of denying it, Murray admitted during a BBC interview that Robert Kennedy had visited Monroe’s home that day; a claim backed up in 1993 by Murray’s brother-in-law who worked as Monroe’s handyman. Murray also let slip that an ambulance had arrived while Monroe was still alive.

No one knows exactly how many people had access to the house the night Monroe’s body was found. Papers were destroyed, telephone records seized. Were they searching for that little black book?

Sydney Guilaroff, her hairdresser, says Monroe called him twice, quite hysterical, to say that Kennedy had been at her house with Lawford threatening her. The last phone call Monroe made was to the White House. Was she calling JFK?
…
Robert Kennedy always denied being in Los Angles, but in the 1980s a police deposition came to light, where he admitted being in Monroe’s house with Greenson.

“It is documented that he said he was holding her when she struggled, then holding her down while the doctor injected her,” says Shevey. Was this a sedative or something more sinister?

or

@L.A. Times

Recently, Gould’s story has been buttressed by Fred Otash, who said that he had decided to break 23 years of silence on the case.

Otash said that shortly after midnight on Aug. 5, 1962–hours before police were notified of Monroe’s death–Lawford called him to say that something traumatic had happened. Lawford and Otash agreed to meet at the detective’s Laurel Avenue office. Otash said Lawford arrived about 2 a.m. looking “half crocked and half nervous.”
…
“He (Lawford) said he had just left Monroe and she was dead and that Bobby had been there earlier. He said they got Bobby out of the city and back to Northern California and would I go on out there and arrange to do anything to remove anything incriminating from the house.

“He said, ‘I took what I could find and I destroyed it–period.’ But he said, ‘I’m am so out of it, I would feel better if you went there.’ I said, ‘I’m not going out there. First, I’m too well-known.’ ”
…
Otash said Lawford told him that Monroe and Robert Kennedy had had a fight over their relationship–whether he was going to marry her–and he left Monroe’s Brentwood house.

“He (Kennedy) went over to Lawford’s and said: ‘She’s ranting and raving. I’m concerned about her and what may come out of this,’ ” Otash said, quoting the actor. “According to Lawford, he had called her and she had said to him that she was passed around like a piece of meat. She had had it. She didn’t want Bobby to use her anymore. She called the White House and there was no response from the President. She was told he (John Kennedy) was in Hyannisport and she didn’t connect with him. She kept trying to get him.

“He (Lawford) had tried to reason with her to quiet down and come to the (Lawford’s) beach house and relax. She said, ‘No, I’m tired. There is nothing more for me to respond to. Just do me a favor. Tell the President I tried to get him. Tell him goodby for me. I think my purpose has been served.’ ”

Otash said Lawford tried to call Monroe back but the phone was off the hook.
…
Otash, 63, said he had remained silent over the years about the Monroe case because “I didn’t see any purpose of getting involved. . . . I’m not being paid. I’m not writing a book. I’m not making a point. If I wanted to capitalize on my relationship in this matter, I would have written my own book.”

Lawford did not live to reply to Otash’s remarks.

His widow, however, confirmed that Lawford had sought out the private investigator on various occasions, including the day of Marilyn Monroe’s death.

Are these people lying? Probably. And Wikipedia does speak of “no evidence.” But sometimes where there’s smoke there’s fire.

[Ukulele_Ike]

Marilyn Monroe was murdered in 1962 by the 14-year-old Hillary Rodham Clinton. In the Lounge. With the Lead Pipe. It was Hillary’s first taste of hot, hot blood.

[Chronos]

Of course the ambulance arrived when she was still alive. Officially, it always does. EMTs are not allowed to conclude that someone’s dead except in the most extreme cases (like decapitation or decay), so they load the body into the truck, rush to the hospital, and let a doctor declare them dead.

[Roderick_Femm]

@Larry_Borgia

It has been investigated. In 1982 there was an investigation by the LA DA. No evidence of foul play was found.

If only the DA had had a “fairly convincing” 48 minute Youtube video to watch!

The DA did a “threshold” investigation, to determine if a full investigation was warranted. He concluded that it was not.

In any case, that wouldn’t stop a current DA from investigating on the basis of all this new and conclusive evidence (I’m not even going to put that in quotes, hoping that my ironic tone will come across in print).

[wolfpup]

My theory is that RFK and JFK hired Hillary Clinton (who would then have been about 15) to murder Marilyn – because who would suspect a 15-year-old? Years later, this emboldened Hillary to then murder Vince Foster and 49 others in one of the largest unsolved killing sprees in US history. Actually, 50 others if you include her assistance in the assassination of JFK, as Lee Harvey Oswald was actually Hillary’s half-brother, fathered by Fidel Castro. Oswald was shot by Jimmy Hoffa, disguised as Jack Ruby, to prevent him from revealing this.

If this hasn’t all been documented on “Peabody’s Improbable History” on the documentary series Rocky and Bullwinkle, it should have been.

[Two_Many_Cats]

My guess is an accident. She was an addict who popped pills to feel better or to feel nothing. Finally the nothing got permanent. Not unlike Heath Ledger or others like that.

[Senegoid]

@wolfpup

If this hasn’t all been documented on “Peabody’s Improbable History” on the documentary series Rocky and Bullwinkle, it should have been.

I’m sure it was. The WABAC machine doesn’t lie.

Th OP’s remark, “It seems there are many MANY witnesses . . .” seems like a giveaway that this is this a bunk conspiracy theory. Many MANY witnesses can keep a secret of all but one of them are dead. (Okay, they may all be dead by now, but there were plenty enough years SOMEBODY would have talked.)

*“I hear the hounds behind my back,
I know their voices well.
But how the hunt will end,” she said,
"Is more than I can tell.

“I hear the hounds behind me,
No matter where I go.
Good luck to every hunted thing,”
Said Marilyn Monroe.*[indent]Ian Campbell Folk Group, Marilyn Monroe[/indent]

[kaylasdad99]

I don’t have any particular reason to suspect foul play myself, but it bugs the hell out of me that the OP mentions EMTs instead of ambulance attendants (which would have been the terminology in 1962).

[kaylasdad99]

@septimus

@L.A.Times

Recently, Gould’s story has been buttressed by Fred Otash, who said that he had decided to break 23 years of silence on the case.

Otash said that shortly after midnight on Aug. 5, 1962–hours before police were notified of Monroe’s death–Lawford called him to say that something traumatic had happened. Lawford and Otash agreed to meet at the detective’s Laurel Avenue office. Otash said Lawford arrived about 2 a.m. looking “half crocked and half nervous.”
…
“He (Lawford) said he had just left Monroe and she was dead and that Bobby had been there earlier. He said they got Bobby out of the city and back to Northern California and would I go on out there and arrange to do anything to remove anything incriminating from the house.

“He said, ‘I took what I could find and I destroyed it–period.’ But he said, ‘I’m am so out of it, I would feel better if you went there.’ I said, ‘I’m not going out there. First, I’m too well-known.’ ”
…
Otash said Lawford told him that Monroe and Robert Kennedy had had a fight over their relationship–whether he was going to marry her–and he left Monroe’s Brentwood house.

“He (Kennedy) went over to Lawford’s and said: ‘She’s ranting and raving. I’m concerned about her and what may come out of this,’ ” Otash said, quoting the actor. “According to Lawford, he had called her and she had said to him that she was passed around like a piece of meat. She had had it. She didn’t want Bobby to use her anymore. She called the White House and there was no response from the President. She was told he (John Kennedy) was in Hyannisport and she didn’t connect with him. She kept trying to get him.

“He (Lawford) had tried to reason with her to quiet down and come to the (Lawford’s) beach house and relax. She said, ‘No, I’m tired. There is nothing more for me to respond to. Just do me a favor. Tell the President I tried to get him. Tell him goodby for me. I think my purpose has been served.’ ”

Otash said Lawford tried to call Monroe back but the phone was off the hook.
…
Otash, 63, said he had remained silent over the years about the Monroe case because “I didn’t see any purpose of getting involved. . . . I’m not being paid. I’m not writing a book. I’m not making a point. If I wanted to capitalize on my relationship in this matter, I would have written my own book.”

Lawford did not live to reply to Otash’s remarks.

His widow, however, confirmed that Lawford had sought out the private investigator on various occasions, including the day of Marilyn Monroe’s death.

Are these people lying? Probably. And Wikipedia does speak of “no evidence.” But sometimes where there’s smoke there’s fire.

What’s with this Otash character? Is he some kind of mendicant or something? Seems pretty fishy to me. Maybe somebody should start looking into him.

[UltraVires]

None of this makes any sense. First, she was unfortunately very troubled and much like Elvis Presley or Anna Nicole Smith, had enough money to pay doctors to prescribe them controlled substances by the bushel full. Sitting around depressed taking uppers, downers, and sidewayzers will kill someone, even if it was unintentional, and even when you are very young. And the evidence shows it was intentional.

Further, what reason would Bobby or Jack want to murder her? This wasn’t 2020 or even 1988. The press didn’t go for that sort of gossip. There was no reason for her to come out with that story because the public would turn on HER for sleeping with two married men who would decline to comment because of the scandalous nature of it “out of respect for [their] wives” and most people wouldn’t believe her, even in the few papers it was published.

So which is more likely? A troubled woman either accidentally overdosed or took her own life, or there was a cross-country conspiracy to murder a woman and cover it up, by no less than Bobby Kennedy in person for a reason that was absurd?

I file this in the same category as the moon landing and 9/11 conspiracy theories.

[pool]

@Kent_Clark

Marilyn Monroe hada history of emotional problems.

Interesting read, I had no idea she heard voices.

[madsircool]

@kaylasdad99

What’s with this Otash character? Is he some kind of mendicant or something? Seems pretty fishy to me. Maybe somebody should start looking into him.

He was a shady PI and ex LAPD officer. He trafficked in ethically challenged surveillance.

Fred Otash

https://thelifeandtimesofhollywood.com/rock-hudsons-wife-secretly-recorded-his-gay-confession-the-secret-fred-otash-files-released-after-decades/

“He was a con artist, bullshitter,” insists novelist James Ellroy (L.A. Confidential), who met Otash several times before his death. “He did a lot of bad things [including] revealing secret details, mostly sexual in nature, about the lives of celebrated people, causing them to endure personal shame, emotional hardship, financial privation — and doing this for a living. … He was always talking about bugging [JFK brother-in-law] Peter Lawford‘s beach pad and getting the goods on Kennedy. He told me Jack [sexually] was a two-minute man. But I did not trust him not to dissemble. I got what I could, and he died.”

[Jackmannii]

@Jasmine

We’ll never know, but I think it’s a very real possibility. She could have brought down an entire dynasty because society back then was much less tolerant about those things than the society of today.

According to Secret Service agents on the JFK detail in the early '60s (see Seymour Hersh’s “The Dark Side of Camelot”), the sexual escapades of JFK and others in his entourage (which may have included consorting with hookers) were legendary, and routinely covered up to protect him. No one had to be murdered in exotic and weirdly complicated ways.

Robert Kennedy always denied being in Los Angles, but in the 1980s a police deposition came to light, where he admitted being in Monroe’s house with Greenson.

“It is documented that he said he was holding her when she struggled, then holding her down while the doctor injected her,” says Shevey. Was this a sedative or something more sinister?

Documented where?

Monroe’s dalliance with JFK was no secret to many at the time, nor was his fling with a Mafioso moll. “Gentlemen’s agreements”, extending to the press corps, meant that JFK’s behavior before and during his Presidential tenure was glossed over or ignored.

[Just_Asking_Questions]

@kaylasdad99

I don’t have any particular reason to suspect foul play myself, but it bugs the hell out of me that the OP mentions EMTs instead of ambulance attendants (which would have been the terminology in 1962).

Thank you.

Not only were they ambulance attendants, they couldn’t do anything like paramedics or EMTs can now. It wasn’t legal. They could just transport.

[LH75]

We lost our friend OpalCat to an accidental overdose. It is no uncommon

[Exapno_Mapcase]

One thing that I know is true is that if you go over the line into believing one conspiracy theory, despite all the garbage you have to swallow to get to the other side, you are ten times more likely to start believing the next conspiracy theory, and the next, and the next. Because they’re really all the same. They all rely on cherrypicked evidence and unreliable sources and gigantic coincidences and people who said stuff before they died and people who have said six different things before breakfast and physics that passes understanding and huge leaps of logic and pure storytelling. Most of the so-called evidence is so vague and haphazard that it can’t even be properly refuted, which just feeds the belief that therefore it must be true. The pattern is instantly identifiable. This fits the pattern to a tee.

I say it’s spinach, and I say the hell with it.

[Roderick_Femm]

@Exapno_Mapcase

I say it’s spinach, and I say the hell with it.

Here, here!

Just in case anyone doesn’t get the reference (originally from 1928 if I’m not mistaken, well before my time). I say it’s spinach…

[RickJay]

@septimus

It all sounds too far-fetched and I’m sure most of you are laughing at me! But the video would have to be full of lies if it were untrue, and it cites over a dozen eye-witnesses including Marilyn’s housekeeper, various detectives, and so on, to substantiate parts of this story.

It’s very likely a bunch of lies.

Monroe’s activities and whereabouts were confirmed by witnesses up to at least 8 PM, which is when she spoke to Peter Lawford. Dr. Greenson had LEFT the house around 7. Lawford spoke to her at 8, and Joe DiMaggio Jr. (not the ballplayer, his son) spoke to her just after 7. if Greenson had delivered a fatal shot to the heart, DiMaggio and Lawford must have been speaking to a zombie. The housekeeper was there the entire time, and it was her who discovered Monroe dead at around 3:30 AM. Greenson then arrived again after that.

There isn’t any evidence Monroe was not dead when the housekeeper found her. None at all. There is a lot of evidence she was a serious drug user and had a lot of problems; she was the Grade A example of someone in danger of an accidental, or sort of accidental, overdose.

Am I to believe Robert Kennedy visited Monroe that day and had her killed the day he was physically there? You can’t be that stupid and still get away with it.