Oh, I like that one!
I read a book once that said that Alexander the Great was attempting to create a “Universal Nation,” a nation where citizenship transcended ethnicity or language.
A truly grand idea, and yet perhaps too ambitious for the time.
Still…one were so much better off conquered by Alexander than by Genghis or Tamerlane.
You do realise that this Nation already existed?
Alexander destroyed it.
Well, he conquered it and those barbarian Macedonians and Greeks, that were still only on a city-state level of civilisation, divided it up amongst their bickering selves.
Then you should have taken the time to get your thoughts together and posted them from the beginning.
Your OP was nearly cryptic in its lack of developed thought and most of the posters who responded before your second post pointed to either errors of fact (“millions of years”) or the similarity between your belief and other theses.
The “shots” began when you began posting nonsense and either refusing to back it up or backing it up with citations that were demonstrably erroneous.
If you Mods don’t like the thread , close it. I am sure there are plenty of threads you like and agree with.
Easy there, Mickiel. People like me are fine with the thread; you just need to maintain an open mind as to how different people may respond to the question. Not everyone believes Adam was a real person, for instance, but lots of people know a thing or two about human consciousness, which is what you were asking about. Inviting the thread to be locked down at this point is a little like taking your bat and ball and going home. If you like debate, let the debate continue. 
Right.
So, what have we, besides the Adam stuff, that would indicate that pre-historic homo-sapiens would have (significantly) less develloped/evolved conciousness than us?
Well, if the original contention is that at one time Man had no consciousness, at what level was that version of Man able to function? Then we try to work out what part of consciousness might have developed first to help Man advance to the next stage.
I believe it has something to do with memory. Modern man has the capacity to remember an incredible amount of stuff, even going back to childhood. We can also remember virtual experiences, like movies and TV shows and music. The capacity seems endless sometimes, although we get stuck remembering where we put the car keys. Then there’s meta cognition: thinking about thinking. Don’t know how far back that goes in human development.
Oh I like debate, I just don’t like being threatened by Mods because they consider my evidence in my theory meaningless.
But I been down this road before here; so it matters not to me. The world won’t grieve.
They are threatening to close the thread because there is a distinct lack of debate here (personally, I think they should move it to MPSIMS or IMHO instead, since you are just giving your unsupported opinion, but that’s me).
except that:
What I present is evidence, its just not " Accepted as evidence here"; its not accepted as theory here; because this place has preconceived guidelines and preconceived rejections of anything that would put any light on God or the things of God.
Its just how it is here.
That’s why I like coming here; its good debate; good challange, that is until a few people feel threatened.
Mickiel,
Can you give examples that define the limits of what you define as ‘conscious’?
A couple I propose are:
SandHill Cranes learn their migration routes and commit them to memory.
Swarming bees make judgements on natural hive locations. 10,000 bugs take flight and navigate directly to a location only a few have seen(“Honey Bee Democracy”, T. Seeley).
Tool making technology requires conscious skill. If you have doubts try flint knapping. The book “Fairweather Eden”, Pitts & Roberts, describes tool making on a site that is 500,000 years old.
Crane
Really? You’re using terms here that are more appropriate for use in a presentation/seminar/lecture series than a discussion forum. To be honest, I’m not even sure if your agenda in this thread is well described by the term “witnessing.”
What a strange thing for you to say. It’s only within the past few posts that the thread has actually turned into a discussion of the emergence of consciousness in primitive humanity. If the thread is to go SOMEWHERE, that’s the road it needs to follow.
Or, more appropriately, the path it needs to blaze. Because, that’s the crucial difference between how you’ve just characterized your plans for this thread, and how threads typically go here. It’s not that threads are designed to go that way; it’s that this forum is designed to be a place where only threads that go that way thrive.
If your “purpose,” for want of a better word is to “present” the details of how you view reality (both physical and metaphysical) without substantive interruption, you might be well-served to find a different platform to do it in. Nobody’s going to force you to leave (subject to the qualifications tomndebb mentioned earlier), but you know best what you want your SDMB experience to be. And I trust that you are observant enough to be able to figure out how likely you are to GET that experience, the SDMB being what it is.
Go in peace.
Or stick around and have some fun; it really can be a blast.
But either way, peace.
See that’s the thing here, its basically a Theist versus non Theist view; Theist view cranes as preprogrammed existence that do what they were created to do, non theist feel as if they programmed themselves, and the scientist who agree with that are non theist.
Its really a matter of belief, and evidence that supports that belief. Spiritual evidence is circumstancial evidence, based on belief in those circumstances. So that is main difference here.
There is nothing ‘pre-programmed’ about migration, site location, or tool making. It is conscious, learned behavior.
So, what are examples that define conscious behavior for theists?
Crane
I did not move the thread here, it was moved here by Mods, probally with intent to end it here. Mine is a theory, but its based on both facts and spiritual circumstancial evidence based on biblical and scientific and archaeological evidence.
I just don’t think this site is ready for anything like that; its TOO scary!
Consciousness is NOT learned behavior, it governs behavior, it does not teach it. It learns behavior in humans, its programmed behavior in animals; an obvious difference.
And let me add, circimstancial evidence, is STILL evidence; it can get you arrested.
