Nope. You try again. Culture is comprised of more than what is codified into law. But feel free to look at any ME country whose laws allow for the killing of gays, the mutilation of girls, stoning of women for adultery, honor killings, etc.
You need to check a calendar. When GWB left office there was no ISIS. And it may interest you to know that the situation in Iraq when The Lying Weakling was speechifying was not identical to what was going on when he pulled the troops out. Even though he was warned what would happen. Now, it is possible that he may have made the right move. But we can see now that he didn’t. You seem unable to digest that simple fact. Forget GWB. Assume everything he did was wrong. Obama owns ISIS. Live with it.
Who are the leaders of ISIS? Where did they come from? What happened when we destroyed that country by choice and left a power vaccuum? It is a direct causal line from the moment shock and awe was unleashed to the formation of ISIS. There is no break in that line, your attempts at revisionist history not withstanding, and leaving troops in Iraq indefinitely is what you think would have been the right way to go? Did you volunteer to go fight yourself? Or is it just other people you wanted to see continuing to die for nothing?
George Bush’s decision to go to war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 created the situation that led to ISIS. You are too hateful of Obama to see things clearly. Live with it, or learn, your choice.
The goalposts are over there. The one that say “civilization,” not the ones you just made up that say “culture.”
Not every Middle Eastern (or Islamic) country does have laws that allow for all of these things, however, AND there are Christian groups that believe in all of these as well. (Female genital mutilation, e.g., is now illegal in Egypt, but fairly widespread in the Coptic Christian community there. Does that make it a Christian cultural practice?)
This is where you jump the shark. If you think the US would have just stayed out of Middle Eastern affairs, you’re smoking something. Have you heard of Israel? Or oil? The moneyed interests that guide our foreign policy would never have allowed a hands-off approach, no matter who was in the White House, nor which unknown terrorists met an untimely death.
Ha. You refuse to read the actual words I write. I’m no fan of Bush and I said let’s assume 100% of what he said was wrong. I also said that we’d be MUCH better off if we didn’t go into Iraq. Let’s pause there. Digest. And possibly whatever you write in response will acknowledge those realities.
My point is that there was no ISIS in 2008. In came to power as Obama pulled the troops out. Whether I hate Obama or not is not the issue. It seems that what might be the issue is your refusal to hold him accountable for his actions and the ramifications of them. Like I also said, pulling the troops out MIGHT have been the wise thing to do, despite the protestations against doing so, but that equation is now answered in full. It was a mistake. The same way you can look back and see that Bush made a mistake (where I agree with you), why do you find it so hard to look back at Obama’s actions and see the the ramifications of it make it clear that his idea was wrong. The animals that flourished in the vacuum created came to power due to his puling out of the troops. Why the hell is that so hard to accept. Wow, you really must be in love. Or are you more in hate of GWB and want everything to be his fault, regardless of what The Weakling does?
Nope. I said civilization and you tried to make this about governments. Feel free to try again, King Goalpost Mover.
I think the your post argues easily that it is not. Might some backwater places that practice Christianity do it, I guess. Does that make it a practice that is “Christian”? Not in my book. But if you’d like to offer numbers that show a sizable portion of the Christian world sanctions such a practice, I’m willing to revisit the issue.
Conversely, there is all manner of barbarism that is not only practiced in Muslim-run countries, but sanctioned by their laws. True, the more remote the village the more barbaric the particular flavor of Sharia law, but most Muslim countries have barbarism codified into statute.
Would ISIS be around today if we had never invaded Iraq and destroyed it? How long would you have wanted the ground troops to stay in opposition to what Iraq and America wanted at that time? When would it be stable enough to prevent something like ISIS? 2 more years? 10 more years? 20? 50? Do you really think that it wouldn’t happen inevitably whenever we left? Did you want us to stay there forever? When were you going to volunteer to head over and fight? Do you think that ISIS hates us because of our activities over there, or because we left? Be honest.
Do you think that immediately going back on a campaign promise and going against 75% of the country is an example of good leadership? If it was a president of your preferred flavor would you support this kind of dishonesty and refusal to listen to the people? I’m guessing no.
These are simple questions. You refuse to consider the implications of them on your viewpoints. You simply want to blame Obama for everything that is going wrong in the middle east right now and forget the mess that he inherited and the lose-lose situation the republicans put us in. It fits your ideology to be sure, but not the facts.
Fair enough. So, tell me, how do militants represent a civilization? Did the Klan represent our civilization? Did the Red Brigades represent the civilizations of Western Europe?
My bad. I thought you were actually going to read what I wrote.
:rolleyes:
BY themselves, I 'd say they don’t. Same with your other groups.
Is the rolleyes your way of deflecting when you have no argument? Seems like your go-to when you get asked uncomfortable questions.
Here I thought we were trying to have an honest debate.
I did read what you wrote, and its the same crap you’ve been saying since the start of the conversation. Obama caused ISIS, Obama is a weakling, its all Obama’s fault. I didn’t see anything new, so I asked you simple, relevant questions to try to get to the heart of the issue and instead of an actual response I get this dismissive, insulting garbage.
Enjoy the rest of your posturbating
So who exactly is this inevitable conflict with? It’s not governments we aren’t fighting, and it’s not militants we are fighting…
Islamic Extremism. Anyone who looks to the Koran and sees support for the atrocities I mentioned. Not to mention blowing up, shooting or killing innocent people.
Feel free to use the [presence of a roll-eyes to give you an excuse. And why is it that I’m supposed to answer your questions yet you simply ignore mine? Oops, that was a question. Sorry Feel free to go away. In fact, here: :rolleyes::rolleyes:
To address the OP, I think some conflict between extremists and non-extremists (in this case, extremist Muslims vs non-Muslims and Muslims who are not extremist) is inevitable. But, in my opinion, there are/were actions that weren’t inevitable that either made it more likely that more people would become or support extremist Muslims, or that made such conflict worse then it might have been otherwise.
What question did I not answer? This one:
That’s literally the only question in your last post to me. There was nothing in that post that you hadn’t already said. I’ve never gotten answers to the questions I’ve posed to you. You ignore, you deflect, you roll your eyes. But no answers to questions that are actually relevant to the discussion and not insulting to my or the boards intelligence like your crap about being in love with Obama, or I’m sorry, the Weakling. (this would be the appropriate place for a rolleyes by the way)
I’d love to continue the discussion, but it would require you to participate in something more than a school yard taunting kind of way.
So can you or can you not answer any of these legitimate questions:
- Would ISIS be around today if we had never invaded Iraq and destroyed it?
- How long would you have wanted the ground troops to stay in opposition to what Iraq and America wanted at that time?
- When would it be stable enough to prevent something like ISIS? 2 more years? 10 more years? 20? 50?
- Do you really think that it wouldn’t happen inevitably whenever we left? Did you want us to stay there forever?
- Do you think that ISIS hates us because of our activities over there, or because we left?
- Do you think that immediately going back on a campaign promise and going against 75% of the country is an example of good leadership?
- If it was a president of your preferred flavor would you support this kind of dishonesty and refusal to listen to the people?
If you are ready to actually come with a real response to my post we can proceed, but if all you have is rolleyes and crap about the Weakling and me being in love then don’t bother.
[quote=“Airbeck, post:59, topic:739517”]
What question did I not answer?
[/QUOTE}
Here you go:
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And if Obama actually wanted troops there, you think he’s such a weakling and bad negotiator that he couldn’t have found a way to bargain with Iraq?
-
The same way you can look back and see that Bush made a mistake (where I agree with you), why do you find it so hard to look back at Obama’s actions and see the the ramifications of it make it clear that his idea was wrong?
3-4)Why the hell is that so hard to accept? Wow, you really must be in love. Or are you more in hate of GWB and want everything to be his fault, regardless of what The Weakling does?
And I’ll add these:
-
Do you think that a President should live up to his campaign promises years after he made them, even if the situation has changed? Case in point: “No boots on the ground”. This one is very current: Obama promised no boots on the ground, [but that’s changing.]
(http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/120215-783307-special-ops-forces-sent-into-syria-against-isis.htm?utm_source=akdart) No, I don’t have a problem with that because I deal in reality and understand situations change. How about you? Since he made the pledge, should he blindly follow it? They way you propose he had to do for pulling out the troops in the first place? -
You seem infatuated with the notion of campaign promises and being honest with the people. Can you point me to posts you have made criticizing Obama for lying about:
A) His comment about drawing a red line in Syria.
B) Campaigning on a promise to not sign a bill for five days, then just saying “Fuck it”. More. (This is a particularly good one because he can’t blame it on anyone. All he had to do was wait. So he actually went out oh his way to make it a lie.)
C) Telling Americans, repeatedly, that they could keep their doctor, health insurance, etc., when in fact that was untrue.