Was There a Lesbian Subtext to Rebecca's Mrs. Danvers?

I thought this may have been explored here before, but a search was unhelpful.

In Hitchocock’s classic film (which was released in 1940, so I’m not going to be boxing spoilers), Mrs. Danvers is played to chillingly evil perfection by Judith Anderson.

I’ve seen this film dozens of times, and at some point it occurred to me that Mrs. Danvers’ attachment to Rebecca, and her consequent hatred of the Second Mrs. De Winter, possibly had a subtext that I had missed before. From the way Mrs. Danvers spoke almost worshipfully of Rebecca, and triumphantly related how, privately, Rebecca was sickened by the male attention she received, and the fervor with which she recounts brushing Rebecca’s hair and the delight and intimacy with which she reveals the negligee Rebecca had… I wonder if there wasn’t a sutble suggestion that there was an unrequited crush there. From what we know of Rebecca, of course, it seems she’d have been perfectly happy to recognize and use such a feeling to her own advantage if it existed.

Of course, it could all have been fierce, but platonic, non-sexual admiration, I suppose.

What say you?

I just saw this movie for the first time recently, and the subtext you speak of seemed pretty obvious to me.

In “The Celluloid Closet”, a documentary on portrayals of gays in film, Rebecca is specifically mentioned as an example of the closeted, but steretypically dangerous and deranged lesbian of that era.

I picked up on it too. One does not show off anothers undies unless there’s a thing going on.

Nowadays, yes. But in 1940?

Remember: the hardest thing for people to understand about history is that people in the past thought differently than we do.

FWIW, my mother, who is 79 years old, and has been a long-time fan of this movie, was utterly oblivious to the suggestion when I pointed it out. After I argued the point, she reluctantly conceded that there might be something to it… but it certainly didn’t leap out at her as obvious.

You mean Mrs Danvers, not Rebecca. Oddly, the source material for the documentary, Vito Russo’s seminal book, only mentions Mrs Danvers in an appendix list of homosexual characters.

True enough, but it wasn’t that long in the past. And given Hitchcock’s interest in many things sexually perverse it doesn’t seem unreasonable to assign a lesbian subtext to Mrs Danvers’ fanatical devotion.

I think it’s an open question, at least, as to whether Rebecca might have reciprocated “Danny’s” affection in some physical way. She certainly was not above using her body and physical charms to get what she wanted from men; I don’t see any particular reason to decide she would never have done any such thing with a woman.

Of course, there’s no evidence FOR such a thing, either. If she did it, I’m utterly certain it wasn’t for reasons of true affection or attraction, but for cynical self-interest, because cynical self-interest defined Rebecca.

When I said Russo only mentioned Mrs Danvers in an appendix, I meant that the film Rebecca and the character of Mrs Danvers are not mentioned in the body of the book. Not meaning to exclude the possibility of reciprocation in some form by Rebecca.

By 1940 Hollywood had discovered the existance of homosexuality. There are actually quite a few “Lavender” films from early Hollywood that predate 1940. And the influx of the Berlin Exodus (i.e. Marlene Dietrich’s androgynous sexuality) would have made it not only possibly, but trendy in 1940 to have such reference.

I could argue that that period was the first period of Lesbian Chic (or I could place it about 20 years earlier).

Wasn’t du Maurier herself bisexual?

I could buy a lesbian relationship between the two of them. I think Rebecca herself was most likely bi-wasn’t she having an affair with another man? I seem to recall something about her visiting a doctor and I got a hint of an abortion.

Well, I saw the end of a modern-ish remake they showed on PBS awhile back, and in that one, at least, it seemed pretty openly a lesbian attraction. (It’s been awhile, but IIRC, Mrs. Danvers actually said “I loved her,” and went to her death lying down on Mrs. DeWinter’s bed, and gently stroking one of Rebecca’s nightdresses.)

Now granted, one can confuse strong depictions of platonic and romantic love, but I thought those scenes were safely in a gayometer’s high KiloSmithers range.

I haven’t read the original book, or seen the original movie all the way through, though. So they may or may not have just been adding onto that plot point.

Interesting. Personally, I kind of agree and kind of don’t, so am going to start a GD about it.

I have no idea whether du Maurier was bisexual; Rebecca was having affairs with several other men, and her husband was not sleeping with her at all as a result. She told him that she was pregnant, but there was no plan of hers to have an abortion – on the contrary, that once the baby was born, there would be no way to prove it wasn’t his – DNA tests being comfortaly in the future – and that this would cement her public position as Mrs. de Winter.

I never got the impression that Rebecca herself was a lesbian, but Mrs. Danvers is another story. Even if she wasn’t technically gay, she was definitely gay for Rebecca. She seemed totally obsessed with her in ways that can’t be just a healthy admiration. As for Rebecca being disgusted by the advances of men, I wouldn’t necessarily call that evidence of lesbianism. Remember, Rebecca was a royal bitch- she could have been just plain cruel, and think that the men who made advances to her were all pathetic losers who weren’t worthy.

Wasn’t this a lie she told him to deliberately provoke him to murder her? When in fact she was infertile, and had some terminal disease (cancer?) and was essentially trying to commit suicide-by-murder?

That is what I remembered from the book, anyway.

Yes. This was what proved his innocence, actually.

Truly a great novel. It’s not even my traditional genre and I loved it.

I don’t know that she was infertile, but she definitely had cancer and was terminal, and she was not actually pregnant. She did goad Max into killing her, and inadvertantly set up the situation in which Max would be exonerated.

“Cousin” Jack Favell is the one that pushes for a full police investigation (after Rebecca’s body is found and after his attempt at blackmail fails) and he pushes the Rebecca-was-pregnant-and-Max-killed-her theory hard. Since Rebecca’s body is discovered in a boat that was set to sink, it looks like murder - or suicide. When Rebecca’s doctor is found and reveals that Rebecca was (a) not pregnant and (b) dying, the pregnancy/murder theory is greatly weakened and the suicide theory given strength.

Of course, it’s all for naught; Max put up with Rebecca’s shenanigans only out of a love for his family name and estate, the latter of which ends up well carbonized after Mrs. Danvers goes nuts.

I can’t remember exactly, but either the disease made her infertile, or her uterus was not properly formed. I’ll have to hunt down my copy.

The ABO blood type system had been known since about 1900. A child with A and/or B blood factor must have inherited it from one or both of the parents (mutations are rare). While far from perfect as a paternity test (a child with type O blood could come from any combination of parents), it was used in paternity cases.

When they’re at her doctor’s office he talks about how she had cancer and that he had told her that it was terminal and that she took it “like a man.” Then as an off-hand statement he says that her uterus was tipped/malformed such that she would never have been able to have a child anyway. In the book you then realise (based on Maxim’s earlier confession to unnamed 2nd wife) that she goaded Maxim into killing her. Everyone pretty much knows that Maxim did it (in the book) but the cancer diagnosis from her doctor allows them to perpetuate the initial story that she killed herself and quashes the investigation by her lover the rakish cousin (forget his name). However, at the end, even the cousin says something like “it’s gone well for you hasn’t Maxim” or something to that effect about how the cancer diagnosis saved his ass.

I was a huge fan of all the DuMaurier books as a kid-my fave is still The King’s General which may dad gave me as a present when I was 8! Not necessarily the most appropriate subject matter.