If I may quote myself 
“I have seen fences of this type that also have heavy mesh/screening in the “open” sections of the fence. This keeps kids from getting through and doesn’t “spoil” the integrity.”
Not to nitpick, but (and here comes the nitpick) the fence didn’t fail. It operated in exactly the way it was supposed to. The little girl was using in a way not in accordance with manufacturer’s specifications.
Had the fence actually broken, then it would be a different story.
I guess if we feel the need to blame anyone, it would be the mom. But I think many - if not most - parents are saved from tragedy by little more than blind luck.
One time - just once - your kid darts into the street. Fortunately, 99.9% of the time a bus isn’t barrelling along at the time. It would surprise me if the majority of toddlers do not come within inches or seconds of potentially lethal or maiming situations at least once. Heck, I’ll bet the majority of times the parents might not even be aware of what the kids were doing and how close the call was. The kid may not even realize or remember as the age.
But yeah, I would hope I would be far more careful than that around a steep drop-off when my kids were young. You don’t once hear the mom say “Be careful,” “Stay back from the edge,” or anything else.
Now I know I’m going to say this inartfully, and I anticipate getting grief for this, but here goes: My 3 kids are now 17-20. I remember doing things with them when they were very young that I’m sure nearly everyone would consider irresponsible. But in my mind exposing the kids to some level of danger was important in teaching them to be careful.
One example - when my 2 eldest kids were REALLY young - similar to the kids in the video - my wife wasn’t home and I was working on the 1-story roof of our house by the front door. The kids wanted to know what the roof was like, so I let them climb up the ladder and sit on the roof while I stood on the ground ready to catch them. They enjoyed it so much, and looked so cute, that I wanted a picture. So I very carefully instructed them to stay seated, and not move a muscle while I got the camera. Which they did, I ran in and got the camera exactly where I knew it was 15’ inside the front door, and came back and snapped the pic. Then I forgot about it until my wife had the film developed and hit the roof! 
But I knew my kids, and based on the experience with them I was comfortable that they would not fling themselves off the roof in the 10 seconds it took me to get the camera. I knew there was a risk involved but I thought it exceedingly minimal.
In a similar situation, we used to walk along an abandoned railway easement behind our house to “the high place” - an old bridge abutment. The kids LOVED it up there, just because they thought it so dangerous. (It probably was a 10’ drop. When they were older I remember them saying “THAT was the HIGH place?!”) But the over-riding thing from the first time was “Be careful, stay away from the edge, sit down, don’t pass this point” etc.
We used to go to forest preserves and state parks and hike all over the place, including the most adventurous trails near drop offs. And my son was a frigging monkey, climbing to the tops of the tallest trees he could get into before he was of school age.
So yeah, in many folks’ eyes I was irresponsible. Maybe I was. But I thought the risks I was taking were controlled risks with a benefit. My kids developed a sense of the need to take care in dangerous situations. And their lives were richer as a result. I have seldom said this, and I think most folks (including my wife) would disagree. But in a perverse way I think responsible parenting can involve intentionally exposing your kids to potentially dangerous situations.
Final point - for each of my 3 kids, their most severe injury - a broken nose for the oldest, and knocked out teeth for the youngest 2 - occurred respectively on a playground, in our basement, and on a family bike ride.
Too true, Dinsdale! Who doesn’t remember standing behind the front seat and sort of squeezing in between the front seats to visit with Mom & Dad. In even a minor fender bender, your tiny little body would’ve been launched through the windshield.
Another great treat was riding on the edge of the back of a pickup truck…oh, yeah, real safe. Or the time that my Dad was too tired to keep it on the road, so I sat on his lap and steered and he had his foot on the gas. God, that freaks me out even as I type it
How about the time I was nearly decapitated by a Lawn Jart!
Anyway, I could go on. I still think that the Mom should accept more blame, but I’m trying to be honest about what passed for “safe” back in the day!
I might have to start a thread–has EVERYONE had an injury from those? I got one penetrate my sneaker and luckily land between my first two toes. My friend got on stuck in her head to where her father had to grab the head tight and pull the dart HARD to get it out. :eek:
What’s a Lawn Jart? Is that like a lawn dart? I never got hurt with one, but I nearly gave my friend Jason a 2nd asshole with one.
My mom tells the story of hiking in the Smokey Mountains with the family–including Grandma and Grandpa. Little brother and I (6 and 4 or thereabouts) were directed to hold hands with someone at all times, as we hiked up the side of a mountain with a steep drop-off to one side. Little brother and I sought to hold hands with Grandma and Grandpa–not because they were beloved relatives we didn’t see often enough–but because they didn’t squeeze our hands to death like Mom did.
The next day, we hiked up a different mountain, and were allowed to frolic over a bunch of rocks to our hearts content. Grandma fretted that we would get hurt, but Mom figured the most likely injury would be a skinned knee–which Dad was prepared to bandage.
It’s all about different people’s perceptions of risks. Mom was frightened when she thought that a fall might be fatal, but undismayed about risking a broken leg or some scrapes or bruises. Grandma didn’t think a fall off the side of the mountain was likely, but was nervous about a much shorter, but more likely fall.
Yeah - jarts are lawn darts.
I used to have 2 sets in my garage, but when I pulled them out a couple of years ago I found the plastic had degraded over the years.
Good clean fun!
Wow.
Yeah, she’s the one responsible for watching her kid, but there’s a big difference between blaming the park for her own failure to keep her away from a cliff and being so callous that she would think “Jackpot!” when she fell from it.
I respectfully disagree and think a bunch of you need to go back and watch that video again. The fence did not preform as it was supposed to, the cause of the accident was the fence itself. The child did not climb though the fence, she was tripped. Watch at about :15 seconds into the video, the child is backing up against the fence and the lower rail which is on or near the ground catches the back of her ankles and trips her, then because she so short she fell though the fence.
Had the lower rail been about 1/2 way between the ground and the top rail, there not have been a problem.
So unless the design of the fence is to trip toddlers, I don’t know how you can say it worked as designed.
BTW: I just showed this to a guy I work with (father of two, grandfather of two) and he agrees that the fence is AFU, and tripped the girl.
This.
Sure, the parents could have/should have been a lot more diligent - I don’t disagree with that position. BUT, the fence is also unsafe for children. It is nearly inevitable that a child would come up against that fence one day, even holding onto mommy or daddy’s hand or on a leash, and bump against it and trip. The lower bar is at ankle height for a toddler, and there isn’t anything to help arrest the fall in the event that this were to happen (and indeed, it did). Another bar of the same wood, at half-height, might have been sufficient to prevent this entire incident (though the kid might have a bump on her head from it!). We baby-proof our homes and stores and office buildings, but for some reason, building a fence “out in nature” doesn’t get the same consideration, despite the fact that it serves the same purpose as a staircase or balcony railing.
The same principle applies to staircases and railings indoors: if a kid can fit through it, but shouldn’t go through it, then there is a problem with the design. It was possible to foresee this and do something about it. I’m glad that, according to Duckster the park has replaced the fence.
It was an unsafe fence, and that shouldn’t be acceptable.
Though as I said, there is certainly a portion of the blame on the parents in this particular case, as well.
What she said. My mother said the same thing after we watched it-put some metal screen there, and you won’t have that problem. If only to keep the park from having to deal with any legal hassles.
Otherwise? Mom is totally at fault. The fence may be shitty, but obviously she had eyes-she could see enough NOT to pose there. Duh.
I freaked out when that guy jumped the fence. He could have easily just kept on going from the momentum and ended up at the bottom of the cliff himself!
I also grew up in the “good old days” when no one wore seat belts, kids sat on parent’s laps in cars, we rode in the back of dad’s pickup truck. I shudder to think of it all now. Hell, I wear seat belts in the back of taxicabs!
Exactly. For me, a fence’s job is to let people know they should “Stop here!”
Unless you’re going to build one tall enough to keep out a T Rex, you’re going to have it too tall or too short for someone. It’s a parent’s job to keep their child alive until the age of 18 so they should assume the responsibility since the fence wasn’t broken.
raises hand Lawn dart in the head. Have a little patch on my scalp that will never grow hair again.
As for the OP… honestly, as I started watching the video, this was my thought process: "Awh how nice. What a great view. Awh, look at the kids. They’re going to take a picture. How nice… OMG!! HOW DID SHE DO THAT? HOW DID THAT HAPPEN??’ I felt no blame to the fence, no blame to the mother. Just a sense of awe, like it was a freak accident that you couldn’t forsee. I do have two children, boys, 5 and 3… and they’re the most dare devilish children you’ve ever met. Even then, I would not have anticipated that.
The fence design is definitely bad, but as a caretaker of a 3 y/o boy, I wouldn’t let him near that particular fence without having a hand hovering near him.
If thats the fence I think it is, it’s on top of a shell mound overlooking tide pools on the Oregon Coast, and it’s worth noting that the ground is clay, slippery, and slopes towards the fence. It’s not quite a 150 foot drop on the other side, but it’s scary enough that my 3 y/o would be holding my hand on that trail.
After reviewing the video, I agree completely with your assessment of how the fence performed. However, I still feel that this near tragedy was 100% the mother’s fault. Risk assessment is a parent’s job 24/7. I’ve got a 2 1/2 yo that would be over a fence that high in a half a second no matter where the bottom rung was or if it was covered in mesh. I’d be holding her hand anywhere within 50’ of that area.
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t baby her when the risk is bruises and scraped knees. That’s the only way they’ll learn. I don’t think she’s been bruise free since she learned to climb the back of the couch and stand in the window when she was ~14 months old. She’s a little monkey.
Jarts - that brings back memories! What the hell were our parents thinking?
I also still feel the accident was the mom’s fault. The park service cannot be expected to erect chain link or mesh fence along every inch of cliff face they manage. A parent’s responsibility does not end when a fence is there. She should be able assess the risk and think cliff - baby - NO.
I think it was an accident. Shit happens. I don’t see the need to assign blame to the mother or the park rangers, but I think the best thing going forward would be for the park to build a better fence, and the adults to keep a better eye on the surroundings of the children.
Jesus did my heart go into my throat when I saw that girl go head over heels like that. I can’t even begin to imagine what that would be like as a parent.
That’s the thing…the fence may have been badly designed, but anyone with eyes and a brain could see the danger of it…it wasn’t a hidden danger. If I was there with my kid, I would have treated it as though the fence weren’t there at all.
I’m not condemning the mom for making a mistake…God knows we all do that, but I don’t think it was the “fault” of the park service.