Washington Redskins = racist, derogatory and horrible?

Great Debates
1

I am the last person who could be accused of climbing on any political correctness bandwagon.

I think team names that reference Indians or particular Indian tribes in a non-derogatory way are fine - the Seminoles, the Blackhawks, etc. Even the Braves, Chiefs and Indians are OK. (Although you could make an argument that ‘The Tomahawk Chop’ is pretty offensive.)

I attended college at a Mid-American Conference school (yeah, one of those “lowly directional schools” from Michigan). That conference has bent over backwards to not offend various Indian communities referenced in team names. Eastern Michigan University called its teams the Hurons, but changed it to the Eagles a few years ago, so as not to offend. What’s offensive about the Hurons? The school isn’t very far from the Great Lake, for God’s sake.

Miami (Ohio) changed their name to the RedHawks or some such. My alma mater, Central Michigan, after lengthy discussion with the local Indian tribe, retained the team name Chippewas, but removed the (cool) Florida State Seminole-styled war spear from the team logo. Now we’ve got a very blah-looking “C” - the grade to which most of the jocks aspire, no doubt. (A little joke. Sorry.)

Then there’s the Washington Redskins. People want to complain about the Rebel flag flying down in South Carolina, but a team in the most prominent sports league in North America, in the year 2000, can still call itself the Redskins?!!

How is this even possibly justifiable?

Try this little experiment: Replace the color “red” in the name with any other color by which people can be referenced - white, black, brown, yellow. Sounds kind of ugly and inflammatory, doesn’t it?

The Washington NBA basketball team changes its name from the Bullets to the Wizards? To me, that’s a little too PC and over-the-top. (Don’t Wizards promote the occult?)

But I have a hard time coming up with a defense for the team name of the Washington NFL club. All I can think of is that it’s traditional. It’s been used forever, to the point where any negative connotations of the name aren’t even thought of.

Sorry, doesn’t seem to cut it. We used “the N-word” for a century or two, also.

2

Here’s a downstate Illinois take on the OP, dealing more specifically with mascots, but also touching on team names.
Chief Illiniwek: Racism, or good clean fun?

On the one hand, if it’s offensive to people, it should be changed. On the other hand, people need to lighten up.

Overall, I think it should stay the same. I’ve been sitting here running “nigger” and “redskin” through my mind, and I don’t think they have quite the same punch, quite the same degree of opprobrium attached to them. “Nigger” is definitely much worse. I suppose, however, that 2sense will strongly disagree with me when he gets here! :smiley:

And maybe it’s time to quit running around trying to be quite so PC all the time. Look at all the foolishness kicked up by that whole “squaw” business.

I don’t really see that it’s hurting that many people, and practically any team name you come up with is going to offend somebody somewhere. The Trojans? The Greeks are going to be upset. The Vikings? The Sons of Norway will have a press conference. The Yankees? The Daughters of the American Revolution will picket Yankee Stadium.

And what about that most calumnious of team names–the Senators? I think we need to take this to the streets…

3

As someone that lives in Tallahassee and has supported FSU for many years, I have a little different take on the issue that the PC minded.

Locally, there is very little objection to the university’s use of the nickname “Seminole”. The Seminole tribe of Florida endorses the mascot and Chief Billie is often seen at university events.

The problems that we have are caused by those attempting to be politically correct. At all of the well attended events there is a faction that wants the university to quit using “Seminole” as the mascot. The kicker is that none of the “demonstrators” are Seminoles, or for that matter indians. Nor are they Florida residents. To my way of thinking they are merely looking for “their 15 minutes of fame”.

I see little wrong with the way “Washington Redskins” is being used. Noone is degrading the American Indian, his history, or way of life.

Have we reached an era where it’s OK to pick on the majority but all references to a minority must be phrased as we perceive the majority?

That is, it’s clearly OK to entitle a movie, “White Men Can’t Jump” and make fun of a stereotype of the majority. Try entitling a work “Black Men Can’t Add”, or “Women Belong in the Kitchen”.

4

I agree with you both. I usually roll my eyes at just about every example of political correctness, particularly when it comes to those offended by team names.

But still, the Washington Redskins does seem to push the envelope of good taste.

Maybe if they changed their logo to represent the potato …

5

First and foremost, lets get one thing straight. The Washington Redskins suck. Their old owner was a complete asshole who kept B-more from getting a team for 13 years( and now he’s DEAD! Yea!), most of their fans are bandwagon lobbiest types, and the new owner reniged on a training camp agreement made just a few years ago and is now CHARGING his fans $10 to park and $10 just to get in and watch the team in training camp!!

That being said, I can understand American Indians getting upset at this one. All the other team names? No. Those names were chosen because they were seen to represent pride, honor, courage, toughness, etc… I would be proud if I were a member of that ethnic group or tribe. Redskin is an insult. It always has been and always will be. This one goes over the line a bit. If a good name can be found to replace it, ( Washington Graft, D.C. Lobbying Lawyers, Washington Putz?(es??)) it should be done. And I don’t give a rats ass if Daniel Snyder loses a ton of money by rejecting a long football heirtage. it’s the right thing to do.( Which pretty much ensures that a money grabbing snake feltcher like Danny Boy won’t do it)
Oh, and FWIW, I am very anit-PC. This seems clearcut to me, however.

6

I remember back when I was in college, The Washington Post had a contest for the best new name for the 'Skins.

IIRC, the winner was the Washington Gridlock.

7

I’d have to agree with weirddave here, I’m very anti-pc but detest the 'skins name. You might as well as call a team the Alabama Darkies or the West Texas Bean-eaters. But since the blacks and hispanics are very vocal minorities, that would never happen. But American Indians are not that vocal. Certainly a team name based on an ethnic type slur can be changed. Even if it was to a tribe native to the Washington area. Either that or become unified and more vocal. Hopefully they won’t march them thousands of miles to their death.

Personally, I like the Washington Fatcats.

8

and who came up with this brilliant idea? “the Senators” does not bring a positive image to mind in todays political climate…

The Redskins certainly does not have the severe attributes of some of the other names mentioned here, but I really think it is up to American Indians to decide if it is offensive. Certainly we have stopped (as a society) to group all American Indians together, but here I think it is appropriate for American Indians to have input into this issue as a group.

Sili

9

I agree with Milossarian. Redskins is not an okay name, and it’s embarrasing that this team plays in our nation’s capital.

On another team: a few people have told me that the Cleveland Indians are named after an Indian guy who played for them many years ago. Okay, cool. But get that stupid face off the hat! I mean, talk about offensive! Chief Wahoo? Come ON. That’s someone’s idea of HONORING a person?

10

Didn’t the Redskins start out in Boston?

I would personally have my team named for something representative of the area, else you end up with ridiculous names like “LA Lakers,” “Utah Jazz,” and “Tennessee Oilers.” (At least they changed.)

When the Dallas Texans moved to Kansas City, they surely didn’t call themselves the “KC Texans.”

So, yeah, I think it should have been changed a long time ago. How about the “Sheepherders?” It’s not particularly relevant to Washington, but it at least provides a name that has some rivalry with the hated Dallas "Cow"boys.

11

Let’s also bear in mind that there’s $$$ at stake, in the form of millions of dollars worth of souvenirs, hats, t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc. etc. etc. I seriously doubt whether the Redskins’ management is even entertaining the notion of a change, for more than a minute or two.

Unless they could persuade the Great American Idiotic Collectible-buying Population that a soon-to-be-phased out Redskins sweatshirt was “collectible”…

12

Move the team to Kansas, and rename them the Topeka Pansies.

I’m in agreement with the majority of the board - there are legitimate arguments whether such teams as the Seminoles (or the Fighting Irish - as a Hibernian, I can state for a fact that I am not always drunk, belligerent, or a leprechaun), are appropriate or not, but “Redskin” is clear-cut. The term has always been derogatory. This isn’t a situation like “colored”, where once it was the accepted term, but is now offensive.

V.

13 
No kidding. It isn't like the producers of said merchandise could just produce new products with the new name and mascot.

Marc

14

As Mjollnir pointed out, the Washington Redskins were originally the Boston Redskins. Also, the Atlanta Braves were originally the Boston Braves.

Given that the Boston area had probably been unassociated with Native Americans for longer than any other major metro area by the time they started naming sports franchises, perhaps we should consider the possibility that neither of these teams were named after Native Americans, given that there’s one other obvious possibility.

It’s at least a reasonable hypothesis that the onetime Boston baseball/football teams were named after the ‘Indians’ of the Boston Tea Party. If that were true (and, as far as I can tell, the origin of both teams’ names is unknown), then these names would not, by themselves, be racist.

on another topic:

weirddave, I considered it objectionable when the Redskins blocked Baltimore from having its own football team, and I’m glad you guys have the Ravens (altho if somebody died and made me god, Baltimore would have the Colts back). Now, when’s Angelos (Orioles owner, to those of you not from the DC/Balt area) going to allow a ML baseball franchise to locate in DC?

15

It seems that, as tacky as the Redskins name is, using Indian references for the names of pro sports teams is only something white liberals seem to care about. If y’all knew the real issues, you would get far more worked up over the poverty, high unemployment, infant mortality. teen alcoholism and drug use that plague many, if not most, of the Native American reservations. If y’all want to get upset, how about the abysmal state of health care that Native Americans receive? How about the high rate of teen suicides? I’ve spent time on the Navajo and Hopi rezzes in Arizona, and the problems there will not be alleviated by renaming the Redskins. It’s well-intentioned, but extremely naive.

16

And the Atlanta team was originally called the “Crackers” meaning “redneck.”

I say they change the names of these teams to stuff derogatory to white folks. We don’t care, wont be offended and are teh last group that you can slur and actually be applauded. The Washington Honkeys, the Atlanta Rednecks, THe Alabama White Trash. I would love to see the mascots!

17

Apparently, you forget the Indian protests outside the World Series in Atlanta when the Braves played a few years ago.

18

I was living in South Korea at the time, so I will have to take your word about protesters at the World Series.

19

[Minor hijack]

Mjollnir said:

Actually, AFAIK, the rivalry has nothing to do with the specific names. The rivalry really started in the late ‘40’s, when Dallas hired away the Redskins’ band leader.

“Oh, yeah, big deal.” I hear you say. “Dallas stole away a ‘band leader’. Whoop-de-do.”

Except that the band leader was also the author of the song, “Hail To The Redskins”, the only fight song specifically written for a professional sports team; and when the band leader left, he took the rights to the song with him. It took a massive court battle for the song to be rightfully restored to the Redskins’ team so that we could sing it after every touchdown.

Ergo, Dallas became that those bastards what stole our song. They’re also a major contender in our division. Any “cowboys vs. Indians” motif is largely coincidental.

As for the team name, fuck it. I don’t mind it changing- hell, after moving out to “raljon” Stadium (now FedEx) from RFK, I figure any further team changes don’t rock the boat any worse.

And weirddave, I’m with Rufus on this one. I’ll cry for the citizens of Baltimore once Angelos gets that 2 by 4 out of his ass and lets DC have a major league baseball team. What’s his problem? Let the Expos move here, then within two years we’ll have forgotten all about them and still pack Camden Yards in the hopes that the Orioles’ batting line-up can function without their walkers and that the bull-pen has seen major improvements by adopting the new standard of pulling people randomly off the steet to act as closers.

20

Guys, I’m with you. If it was up to me, I’d personaly DRIVE to Montreal, pick up the 'spos, and drop them off at RFK in time for the first pitch. Peter Angelos is a megalomanic, ego-driven, cash hungry, short LAWYER! who happens to be from B-more. He has single handedly driven a franchise that had a long history of pride in standing for the right things into the ground. If you’re gonna pound Peter ( and that’s a great idea! ), then let those of us he’s hurt most get in the first licks. Oh, and JC,? About the bullpen? I’m pitching Friday night. There is a website where you can sign up, want the URL??:wink:

Other matters:

I really wish you’d stop. That’s in my top 5 sports things I hate.

Sing along!

" We hate the Redskins,
We hate DC,
Ravens are rolling,
Crush-ing old DC."

Hehe

Also:

I believe the Baltimore Colts fight song was written just for the team. IIRC is’s actually called “Win you Baltimore Colts”. Join me, won’t you:
Da da da dadata da, dada dada dah, da dah…“Fight, Fight,Fight…!”…
<sigh> Best fight song ever. <sigh>

You and me both, brother. The name , anyway. Irsay can stay in Indy.
goboy. Good point, one that needed to be said, and one of the main reasons I’m so anti-PC. So often the PC crowd gets wrapped up in rhetoric and superficiality that they forget the real issues.