Water levels are usually held in the same low esteem as sewer levels. Why?
Is it something inherent to water levels or do they just tend to be badly done? If the latter, in what way(s) is it badly done?
Games which use outer space, helicopters and plane flight (to some level) usually resemble water levels yet they don’t have anywhere near as bad a reputation. How come?
Since water levels increase the importance of the vertical axis, it should increase gameplay possibilities. How could water levels be done well through the increase in axes or some other way?
Have there been games or levels which use fluids that provide more buoyancy to game objects than air but less than water?
The only games I can even think of that have “water levels” (where you can swim in the water, and where the underwater portions are the majority of the level) are the Mario games. Oh, and Blaster Master, too. Do you have any more examples in mind?
Yeah, I’ll fight the premise, too. There are a few levels in the Tomb Raider games and some RPG types, and I’ve never heard anything to indicate that they’re held in low esteem. The sewer levels thing is just because they’re cliche, not because the environment is inherently flawed.
Doesn’t everyone hate the Water temple in Zelda: OOT? Assassin’s Creed: Black Flag has underwater mini-games of sorts that you need to unlock the best weapons for your ship. I hate those.
I think the biggest issue is that the water mechanics are always poorly done, especially in 3d games. The controls are based entirely on walking and jumping on dry land. It always feels like an after thought translating those to swimming.
Everquest is another pretty classic example of this - one of the original high level dungeons was the underwater Kedge Keep, and most people hated it (… I kind of liked it…).
Space combat games are 3D, but the controls are designed from the ground up to be 3D or the game itself will fail.
Water levels in an action-adventure game are 3D, but the controls are designed for a mostly 2D experience and the adjustment is hard, plus the controls are a pain in the ass.
Also, space games don’t usually have you finding your way through a 3D maze, whereas water levels are usually puzzle levels that just end up being frustrating.
QFT. They have already said that there will not be new underwater Legendary Weapons with the HoT expansion. Underwater combat was limited to begin with and it seems to have been abandoned.
Kedge Keep deserved to be hated. The mob pathing with the extra Z-axis was atrocious and trying to pull stuff meant some random glitchy train as often as not. The original concept for Veksar was to be underwater as well, but they couldn’t fix the same numerous issues that plagued Kedge so it was scrapped (was supposed to be part of Ruins of Kunark) and didn’t come out until years later as a more traditional zone.
Airless locations are a pain in the ass anyway since it adds the “air” mechanic and tries to rush you along. In a game like EQ, it’s doubly bad since (a) EQ’s base play style is to spend considerable time in one location versus dashing through so you’re constantly fiddling with recasting breath spells or (b) forces you to give up a valuable item slot for some Enduring Breath effect item.
The other thing is the graphics. It seems like every underwater sequence makes everything the same shade of blue-green, darkens the screen, and reduces the draw distance so you can’t see anything.
Well I personally don’t mind most water levels to be honest. I can think of quite a few awesome ones. I am sorry if these have been mentioned already, I only read the first few posts, but anyway… I like the water levels in Donkey Kong (snes- riding a swordfish ftw), Mega man X(snes), I know people already mentioned the Mario’s and Ocarina of time(I thought the water temple kicked ass). Sonic the hedgehog games had some decent ones if you ask me… I guess those are all older games where (except for zelda) the 2d factor limited how much they could really screw up the level to begin with… if I think of any more modern games with good underwater levels I’ll get back to Ya.
edit- oooh damn. I believe Metal Gear Solid 2 had a few good underwater parts back in the day as well. I’ll keep brainstorming. but you guys are right. most water based levels usually suck.
Myst had a puzzle that had to do with water levels and pumps.
Also there is a flash game where you are a elephant collecting stars or something, and for a while you can only get so many till you flood the game, then you can get the rest.
And come to think of it, Mega Man 2 also had a water level (Bubble Man), but it was of about the same level of quality as any other level in that game (mostly pretty good). The only difference was the greater jump height and the higher density of insta-kill hazards (the mines), and the latter of those two isn’t really inherent to the water.
World of Warcraft’s Catalcysm expansion pack had an entire underwater zone: Vashj’ir.
Not my favorite, for essentially similar reasons as cited by others: movement is 3d but controls aren’t, and slower than ground movement; AI pathing (friendly and enemy NPCs alike) can get sketchy; difficulty judging relative location in 3d.
This last one came up a lot when looting or interacting with something floating well above the bottom. The lack of ground-based scale clues greatly weakens depth perception to the point that it was routine to swim well past or well short (and out of range) of the object but have it look like it should be right there. I got into the habit of doing a lot of off-angle looking to verify closing distance.
That closing-distance difficulty figures a lot into melee combat, since you can think you’re close enough but the target is still too far above or below you. (Since most graphical distance indicators, like the hitbox, are 2d.)
I don’t go back to Vashj’ir very often. It was graphically and musically very pretty, but too frustrating while playing.
Water levels are often terrifying. I’m looking at you, first Half-life. I much preferred to waste my entire arsenal of ammo waiting on the shore and taking shots at those damn ichtyosaurs when they surfaced.
use the water to enhance movement, not restrict it. Similarly, it shouldn’t restrict the time you spend there with oxygen limits.
have controls and AI pathing specifically built for 3D. Also, the player should have a tool to measure distance like an active sonar.
be action/exploration-based rather than maze/puzzle-based.
Graphics: This one leaves me puzzled. I agree that the blue-green shade, the screen darkening and the reduced draw distance as too common. What options would be preferable and yet still make for a water level? Or at least a fluid-of-some-kind level.
If I player a level that involving moving through a fluid thicker than a gas, I would find it strange if it didn’t have a large effect on the visibility level.
What possible gameplay mechanics have the most potential for water levels?
What about aesthetics? I use the word “aesthetics” broadly to cover graphics, animation, sound, post processing effects, mood, art style, lighting etc.