Hi Glee,
I read your reply again tonight (earlier and without beer intake!). I have looked at the link you included and it seems they will more or less come to me, so what have I got to lose?
I have some concerns, firstly the Randi site states the following; “At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.” Well, I dont see this as paranormal, and it certainly isnt supernatural or occult, so Im not sure how it will be recieved. Secondly, I am not able to explain why the rods work, they just do, and it isnt me making them, so will I be justified in taking this forward? I am sure it is a product of nature, of physics in some way not yet adequately explained. A third concern is that they may expect more, such as devining over maps with a pendulum etc which I am not a believer in (I had a go out of curiousity - but at the end of the day what I do is to detect something physical, not exert some magical power over a map).
However, I will be in touch and we’ll see where it goes.
regards,
Richard
Hi,
I would welcome anyone to come and visit, and I will demonstarte the use of ‘devining’ rods. I’m really not sure that is the right term as devination implies occult or magical, and this is clearly a physical phenomenon - albeit one I have not fathomed.
regards,
Richard
I think it would be in the spirit of the Straight Dope DIY science to have a Doper observed demonstration.
(The offer is of course open to richinlincoln too, but I don’t recall him saying that he’s keen to show off.)
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Okay, define what you mean by “energy”. Can this “energy” be harnessed? Can you scientifically measure this energy? In what units is this energy in if I measure it?
Mentioning the word energy in such a manner increases the negative energy of my skeptical nature. (which after reading this can be measured in BS/hectare).
They have tested dowsers in the past, so this should not be a problem.
They are not interested in an explanation. I believe that is stated expressly in the rules.
Read the rules again. You are only asked to do what you claim you can do,
You are in Lincoln, North East of Nottingham?
Actually your claim is similar to dowsing and can be treated the same way.
What is your evidence the Randi Foundation won’t pay off?
They certainly have the money and offer legally binding contracts for a mutually agreed paranormal demonstration.
Which claim is my claim and how is it similar to dowsing??
You have nothing to lose. Either you will learn something about your ability, or you will be $1,000,000 richer. 
I can assure you that dowsing is a paranormal ability.
There is no scientific explanation for it; it has never been demonstrated under scientific conditions; the Randi Foundation happily accept dowsing as paranormal.
As the site says, you don’t need to explain how you do it.
You simply state what you can do.
You and Randi agree a test (there is a preliminary one, I think).
Once you pass the preliminary, you’re in play for $1,000,000.
Here’s a Randi dowsing test (which has nothing to do with psychic ability):
http://www.randi.org/jr/032902.html
I hope you do. As I said, I’ve been waiting for decades for a dowser to come forward.
You claim that ‘he will never ever ever pay off’.
There is no evidence for this, which is the same as for dowsing.
Do you know how to demonstrate the use in a manner which eliminates everything except your claimed ability, and in a manner which is so simple that the result is unambiguous and the method beyond reproach?
Like this…
First, at a suitable location, dowse it in any manner you wish so that you can confirm to your satisfaction that there is no water source underground or anywhere near that will conflict or interfere with a fair test.
Next, in full view of you, someone will take 10 gallon plastic water jugs, and fill 9 with sand, 1 with water. Using some kind of random number generator, they will determine which one (1…10) will have the water, and set them up in line, then cover each jug with an opaque tub. Your task is to determine which tub covers the one with the water. Can you do that? I know that you can.
Only one step to go, and it is identical to the previous step of randomly selecting one water jug out of 10. But this time, you cannot watch it being done, and anyone who participates in the selection and placement of jugs and tubs will have to leave the scene before your work begins so they don’t inadvertently slip, give it away and spoil the test.
Now, your task is exactly the same as before, but this time you have no clue from visual observation as to where the water jug is. You will have to rely upon your claimed powers and nothing else. Take your time and be sure.
Your chances of doing it, purely by chance, for one trial, are 1 out of 10. If you truly have a skill and can detect water (you showed you could do it already, remember?), you should have a perfect score each time you try.
If you do about 10 tries and have a near-perfect score, say 8 out of 10 tries right, you might have a real ability.
If you have no ability at all, but are relying purely upon chance, your final score will be around 1 right out of 10 tries.
Simple, eh? Can you do it?
That seems a stretch.
I am making no claim of paranormal or supernatural ability, nor am I claiming that anyone else has such abilities.
I make no claim regarding the laws of physics or of my or any other person’s ability to judge how those laws function.
For my argument for the idea that Randi foundation will never ever pay off, let me borrow your words.
I’m assuming that your are not contending that the fact that they have the money means that they will give it to someone. I have five dollars. I could throw away three times that much and be no closer to insolvency. That doesn’t mean I’d give it to you for performing some trick. (I didn’t even pay you for a chess lesson!)
So, I’m reading your comment above as a sort of recipe.
We need 1) The Money 2) A binding contract and 3) A paranormal demonstration.
I believe they have the money. I believe they have done valid tests with valid, good faith contracts in the past and could do so again in the future.
All we need is a paranormal demonstration. There will never ever be such a thing.
Unfortunately, the FAQ I linked to earlier points out that someone could theoretically win using standard scientific practices that they dressed up as supernatural.
I have listened to James Randi speak and I’ve read some of his writing. He is talented, intelligent and almost compulsively rational.
It’s called a challenge, but it’s really more of a bet and I do not believe the JREF or James Randi will enter into a losing bet. They will not be duped by a clever showman and if they are in any one test, they will account for that in future tests.
That is an argument and whether or not anyone respects or agrees with it in form or in content, it is not a claim of any ability with regards to supernatural powers or strange phenomenon that science has yet to explain and I find your claim to the contrary to be absurd.
I have tried to work this out several times myself and have never come up with a satisfactory answer… What is the lowest number of successes that would indicate a “Borderline” indication of paranormal ability.
If you try ten times and succeed once, that just indicates you took the test. Would you need to succeed at least four times? Five?
How about in two trials of ten tries each?
Such an answer would have to be worked out with the assistance of a statistician, which I am not. But in the JREF test, it is a number that is mutually agreed upon before the test starts. It will be high enough to satisfy the doubters, but low enough to allow for some mistakes or jitters on the part of the claimant.
SiXSwordS,
I took issue with your statement
‘There are also valid reasons for opting out of the James Randi challenge-- not the least of which is that he will never ever ever pay off.’
as it implies that Randi will not pay out the money, even to a valid claim.
If you meant that you don’t believe in the paranormal and that Randi therefore will not have to pay out, that’s fine by me.
So your statement should have made it clear that the non-existence of the paranormal was your belief, not that Randi wouldn’t pay.
This has reference to the thread posted by “davolente” on his experience.
I too am a hardcore atheist and skeptic. But I am an experienced water diviner. I stumbled upon this by accident.
I had visited a farm in a small village in Andhra bordering Karnataka, near Kuppam in 2001, along with a few of my friends, including one Mr. Kasinath. The farmer, who is known to Kasinath told him that he is planning to dig a borewell since the earlier bores had almost dried up. Mr. Kasinath offered to confirm the identified spot. He then took a coconut on his palm and started walking on the farm land. The coconut which normally lies flat on his palm started rising upright and then falling back. He continued till he identified a spot and said this was the right spot. We were all surprised. Then each of my friends started trying the same. None of them could not do it. I, being a skeptic avoided. But Mr. Kasinath insisted that I try a hand once, saying that this will work only for persons who has “Jalrekha”. Reluctantly, I placed the coconut on my palm and started walking. To my utter shock, the coconut actually moved! I couldn’t believe. Mr. Kasinath confirmed that this “Jalrekha” is seen in a few rare people only.
Seeing is believing. I continued my experiments. The success rate was 100%.
Later I learned about dowsing rods, from one late Mr. K. P. C. Namboothiripad. Now I practice water divining as a hobby, using dowsing rods and, also coconut.
From my acquaintance with late Namboothiripad, I learned a lot more about the dowsing rod.
The dowsing rod also has a very interesting use. With this I am in a position to identify the positive and negative energies at a place or of an object. I have also observed that the dowsing rod when placed before the photos of living persons and that of dead persons react differently. Further, when the photo of dead person is placed facing south, the dowsing rod indicates positive energy; while in all other directions, it shows negative energy. Similarly, photos of Indian gods and goddesses show positive energy, specially if placed facing east or west. Also, lamps used in pooja rooms show positive energy, if placed in east-west direction and negative energy if place in the north-south direction. Further, the writings in Devanagiri lipi(scripts)- Sanskrit, Hindi etc.show positive energy, whereas, the writings in English show negative energy. Same is true while speaking Sanskrit and English. Every individual has an aura of positive energy around him/her. The radius of this circle differ from individual to individual. This aura decreases when he/she talks in English and increases while chanting Sanskrit shlokas.
The word “Aum” in Sanskrit scripted on any surface shows positive energy. It also helps to reduce the negative energy at any place. Chanting of “Aum” too has a very positive impact on the positive energy level.
These have been demonstrated by me at various places. I can show this to any one.
I am at Ahmedabad, India
I am at Ahmedabad, India
I believe there are organizations in India that are affiliated with JREF. If you apply for the MDC (Million Dollar Challenge), they will attempt to put you in contact with the nearest group for your convenience.
For someone with your impressive credentials and such a wonderful track record; an “experienced diviner” with a “100% success rate” and so much positive energy, proving your skills and talents will be incredibly easy and you cannot fail. Please, do not hesitate to follow the simple process to win the money and put it to good use, whatever that might be. If you don’t need it, I’m sure there are many worthy charties in India that would be grateful for your donation.
BTW, have you read the suggested test procedure in one of my previous posts? It’s quick & simple. If you can do that with some friends, it will be even easier for the formal JREF test, which will probably be quite similar. Good luck!
I am an atheist, and skeptic. But these are my real experiences.
The dowsing rod by itself does not have any power. It works with select few people. I am one such person who has been using the dowsing rod. This is used for water divining. I also use coconut for water divining.
The dowsing rod also has a very interesting use. With this I am in a position to identify the positive and negative energies at a place or of an object. I have also observed that the dowsing rod when placed before the photos of living persons and that of dead persons react differently. Further, when the photo of dead person is placed facing south, the dowsing rod indicates positive energy; while in all other directions, it shows negative energy. Similarly, photos of Indian gods and goddesses show positive energy, specially if placed facing east or west. Also, lamps used in pooja rooms show positive energy, if placed in east-west direction and negative energy if place in the north-south direction. Further, the writings in Devanagiri lipi(scripts)- Sanskrit, Hindi etc.show positive energy, whereas, the writings in English show negative energy. Same is true while speaking Sanskrit and English. Every individual has an aura of positive energy around him/her. The radius of this circle differ from individual to individual. This aura decreases when he/she talks in English and increases while chanting Sanskrit shlokas.
The word “Aum” in Sanskrit scripted on any surface shows positive energy. It also helps to reduce the negative energy at any place. Chanting of “Aum” too has a very positive impact on the positive energy level.
These have been demonstrated by me at various places. I can show this to any one.
Posted by P. Ramanujan(pramanujan2007@rediff.com)