Wavelength and radar

What is the relationship between return signal power and wavelength, all other factors being constant? Looking at the radar equation, Lambda has a 2 exponent next to it so it seems that return signal power will increase at the square of wavelength in general. Is this the case? If I halve the frequency, the return signal power will be 4 times greater?

Lower frequency results in more noise. Is this increase in noise only from increased clutter noise or also thermal noise and general background noise? Does using a longer wavelength lower the signal to noise ratio or does it generally increase the signal and noise equally?

What is the minimum beamwidth of a transmission for a given frequency? E.g.: If I keep increasing the size of an antenna that sends a wavelength of 1mm, is there a point at which the beamwidth will not get narrower? If so, what is that point? Presumably, I couldn’t use mm wave radar from a ridiculously huge antenna to get a resolution equal to visible light.
In radars, is the choice of wavelength chiefly driven by the trade-off between return signal power and resolution, provided the other factors stay constant?

When you say “all other factors being constant” in this case, you are putting yourself in “assume a spherical cow” and “ignore gravity” type of situation as usually those all other things are nowhere near constant. In fact, it’s those other things that usually determine the frequency being used.

Increasing the wavelength (decreasing the frequency) decreases your resolution and significantly increases the amount of clutter you get in your returns. Usually you end up with so much clutter that the radar is practically useless. One notable exception to this is over the horizon radar, and the main reason this works really well is that the frequencies they use happen to reflect really well off of the ionosphere (one of those other things that isn’t at all equal), which is what gives them their over the horizon capability. Sure, the resolution of over the horizon radar is crap, but hey, it works over the horizon, giving you a much greater early warning capability (and a bunch of false positives that you have to sort out, but hey, you take the good with the bad).

The absorption or reflection of water in the atmosphere also determines which frequencies are more desirable to use. If you are making weather radar, you want to pick frequencies that tend to get reflected really well by clouds and precipitation. If you are making radar to detect enemy planes, you want something that will pass through clouds but reflect off of planes. In either case, you don’t want a frequency that gets absorbed easily by water as your atmosphere attenuation due to water vapor in the air will be horrible. On the other hand, if you are making a very short range radar detection device of some sort (like say a traffic light detector, or an alarm system) you may want to pick one of those frequencies where the atmospheric absorption is high, since you are going such a short distance that the absorption doesn’t matter, and you aren’t likely to get much interference from other radio devices because the frequencies propagate through the air so poorly.

Radio frequencies are also really cluttered with, well, radio. At lower frequencies you’ve got AM and FM radio signals, TV signals, and all sorts of stuff. As people invent new stuff, they generally try to fit it into whatever lowest available frequency they can get, so your lower radio frequencies are extremely cluttered with man-made signals. In fact, the radio spectrum is so heavily cluttered that, on the rare occasion when the FCC decides to auction off frequency bands, the sale price usually ends up being an extremely large sum of money.

There’s also the consideration of size. For the same type of antenna, the antenna scales up with the wavelength. So if you double the wavelength, the same type of antenna design will be twice as large. A half wave dipole antenna, for example, is half the wavelength in size, so obviously if you double the wavelength you double the length of the antenna. If you are making an airborne radar, the size of an antenna that will fit onto the back of an AWACS plane is a lot larger than the size of an antenna that will fit into a small fighter jet (in fact, slight point of trivia, in the plant that I worked in, airborne radar was produced in one building and ground-based radars were produced in another building - the AWACS antenna was built in the ground-based building because of its sheer size).

If you don’t want to use ceteris paribus, then make the presumptions that usually accompany an increase in wavelength.
“Increasing the wavelength (decreasing the frequency) decreases your resolution and significantly increases the amount of clutter you get in your returns.”

Does it increase return signal power? Does it increase signal return power, noise and clutter in equal amounts?

If I transmit at 8GHz with Antenna A and at 2GHz with Antenna B, what is going to be the difference in return signal power? If some other factors would be changed beside frequency, please tell me what they are and how they would affect return signal power.

Does anyone else think that MichaelEmouse is attempting to build his own fifth generation fighter in his garage? :slight_smile:

Heh. I got interested in it because the term “electronic warfare” kept coming up but I didn’t know what it really meant aside from involving electrons and war. So I looked into it and found it quite more interesting than the usual macho hardware comparisons involving inches. It’s where the real edge is today and for the foreseeable future.
We’re starting to see the same thing happening even for small arms: The length, weight and caliber of weapons doesn’t change very much. The sights, however, have been making strides and can often cost more than the weapon itself. Some of the newer sights can cost more than twice as much as the weapon. But that’s for another thread.

I’m quite aware that I will not have an engineer’s level of precision when it comes to knowledge of those systems. In this thread, for example, I am mainly looking to see which relationships are linear, exponential or logarithmic.

That is the size of the Antenna that you are looking at there. The gain squared term is decreasing by the lambda to the 4th, so the return signal is actually DECREASING by lambda squared.

When you try to design a wideband constant gain antenna, the large-wavelength part of the antenna has to be physically bigger. Bigger + same gain = more energy. So that equation is telling you that when you build a bigger antenna you get better range.

Would keeping the antenna the same size and increasing the frequency increase antenna gain and thereby the maximum range?
What are the reasons that lower frequencies tend to be used for longer range radars (excluding over-the-horizon radars)?

  1. Yes. Normally this is a bad thing: an antenna is already designed for optimum directionality and/or maximum permitted power density and/or minimum cost.

  2. Just guessing, you normally don’t want to pay more to get a narrower beamwidth with poorer transmission characteristics, but that’s just a guess.

Why? Perhaps you just gave the reason in the deleted sections, but I missed it.

I was (pleasantly) rocked back on my heels and not a little impressed with the Latin, especially since I had no idea what it meant.

Well, the very first example in Plato.Stanford is Snell’s Law, which gives further credit to OP’s usage.

Props.

plato.stanford.edu/archives/spr2014/entries/ceteris-paribus