Oops, my bad.
Newsweek did not do a, “fine job”.
An reporter with Middle East experience would have known that allegations of Koran-bashing are taken very seriously by Muslims. Thus, certain claims need to be framed more cautiously.
Still, this is an error of knowledge and experience, not journalistic accuracy.
Larry diRita held an interesting Defense Department Operational Update Briefing today.
diRita got a little friskier elsewhere:
I wonder if he realizes that the same could be said for Bush, Powell and the rest of our happy leaders? Or that the administration and pentagon’s failure to adhere to the Geneva convention at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere provided the oxygen that’s feeding this current firestorm?
Let’s get a few things straight:
From what I have been told, the Holy Koran is not just the Word of God written in a book, to Muslims it is the actual WORD OF GOD. Kind of like the way we Catholics believe that the wafers of bread become the Body of Christ.
Fundies, as much as I loathe them, are not as fanatical as certain people in the Islamic world. Call me a racist or cultural relativist but we are comparing apples to oranges here.
Newsweek seems to me to have not submitted a retraction at all. They had TWO sources in senior government positions confirm this. Another source DID NOT deny it. By certain people’s logic in regards to this story the Watergate scandal would have never broken. The article in contention was a small blurb-like write up in the Periscope section of the magazine. The two senior sources confirmed the incident. Numerous prisoners released from Gitmo have been complaining about this before the story in Newsweek. At best we can call it sloppy reporting and I believe that the sketchy details are reflected by putting the story where it was featured in the magazine. Can you fault someone for a sloppy job or for rushing in without all the facts? I wish we could because the Bush administration has a lot to answer for if this is the case. What does the editor of Newsweek have to say about the whole affair? Read here.
My personal feelings are that the story is mostly correct and that someone was leaned on to retract their statements or the magazine itself was reigned in. If they are wrong, they have a lot to explain. People’s lives are involved. But ultimately what are we saying here? That you will be held accountable for what you try to print objectively as possible? That we should refrain from printing stories that have the potential to hurt our country? That sounds like Nazi Germany to me. I believe that we have really lost site of what it means to be an American.
And lastly and most sadly, the Islamic world will not believe us regardless. They know about the other stories from the former detainees. I believe that our boys are going to suffer for the whole affair but guess what? It’s not all Newsweek’s fault.
Sure, but there always has to be someone else to blame. If you don’t have that, people might start to notice the common thread in all the scandals, screwups, and fuckups.
It was “activist judges” for a while. Now it’s “librul journalists”. Next week or next month it will be something else. Probably “obstructionist democrats” in either the House or Senate.
But I can guarantee you there’s certain people who will never take responsibility for anything.
-Joe
Two things:
I can think of one incident of religion-fueled outrage that, if it wasn’t rioting, was pretty darn close: the fallout from John Lennon’s “bigger than Jesus” comment. In the American South, people held rallies and burned Beatles paraphernalia. (At least one of those rallies was organized by the Grand Dragon of the KKK. :rolleyes: ) Lennon and Brian Epstein held a press conference, at which Lennon offered an explanation of his remarks, then, when pressured to make it an apology, figured this wasn’t the hill he wanted to die on and said, “If it’ll make you happy, then okay, I’m sorry.” Even so, there were some rather unpleasant incidents on the subsequent tour; instead of screaming adulation before and after the show, they got screaming threats from Bible-waving fanatics.
In the current incident, is it possible that the same thing is happening on both sides? Newsweek is being condemned for allegedly not checking their sources, but if the illiteracy rate is really that high in Iraq, and print and electronic media not as widespread as in America, is it possible that the people protesting the alleged Koran abuse are acting on fourth- or fifth-hand information? Like, one person read the article, repeated it to someone else, who passed it on and so forth, and it was highly embellished along the way? One Muslim cleric with false information could get a heck of a lot of people whipped up into a frenzy.
…I meant to bold “apology” to bookend “explanation”. :smack:
Those who can’t believe how worked up those backwards Muslims get about their Korans being torn up need only take a look at the way we treat the American flag.
Literacy in total population:
Afghanistan 36%
Iran 79.4%
Iraq 40.4%
Pakistan 45.7%
Saudi Arabia 78.8%
Uzbekistan 99.3%
I think this post is worth revisiting since a fair amount want to compare religious nutbags christian v. muslim. They really aren’t comparable since the backgrounds aren’t even close to similar.
Religion is just the match. How much explosive there is to go off depends on the lives of the people involved. It’s the difference between blocking the removal of a piece of concrete and rioting over the possibility of your holy book being desecrated.
Newsweek shall henceforth be referred to as Newsweak.
Yeah… I kind of regret comparing the explosive muslims fundies to the loud-mouthed but not quite as insane christian fundies. All in all, it’s rather silly to compare insane regliguous zealots to each other, but the fundie muslims make it kind of easy somestimes.
And I was talking about the radicals who riot and murder because a book was thrown in the toilet.
Diogenes and elucidator: I’m curious (and this isn’t an attempt to find contradiction in any arguments): How do you feel about the tactic of abusing the Koran to make an Islamist extremist talk? Not whether you think it would work or not, but whether you think it’s a form of unnecessary abuse, etc.
I personally don’t find a problem with it. A book is a fucking book. You will have an enemy for life after that, though, so once you do it you may as well either put the guy in a shallow grave or keep him in Gitmo for life.
However, after having said so, it is a STUPID thing to do. All it will do is piss more people off. Following it up by saying, “We’d never!” is of course, just throwing another lie on the bonfire. Because you know it’s a lie. And I know it’s a lie. And everyone outside those with a BushFish on their car knows it’s a lie.
Blaming someone else for reporting what has ALREADY been reported is just the most balls-out bullshit I’ve ever seen. So, naturally, people are eating it up.
Praise The Leader! Praise The Book! It’s all the same.
The world is getting more and more insane by the moment.
-Joe
I don’t reverence Ann Coulter, I don’t know why anyone would reverence Molly Ivins. They’ve got about the same credibility.
Bullpucky! Prove it! Show me a lie. C’mon, big mouth, show me one, or slink away like a lying cur!
Upon reflection: hijacking this into a discussion of Miss Molly is less than kosher. If cppguy can back up his charges, I heartily invite him to open a Pit thread on that subject. I remain entirely confident that he cannot, and am perfectly willing to interpret such silence as substantial affirmation.
I already did it. Re-read my post. Then go to hell.
elucidator, his post is his cite.
It’s quite legal to deface the American flag in the US. Doing so does bring a 10.8% change of getting punched or slapped (chance varies by proximity to Texas). Defacing a Koran in a Muslim country brings a substantially higher chance of being punched, plus a legnthy jail sentence or execution (in some countries).
Also, the rioters are rioting over a report, based on an UNNAMED source who said the allegation WOULD BE IN A REPORT – not even that it was. They rioted because a report would allegedly say that A GUY (yes, someone who works for the gov’t, but still a guy) flushed a Koran.
That’s important because, halfway around the world, people are burning flags. I know they’re doing it, not because an anonymous source says it will be in a report, but because I can see them doing it on the news weekly, if not daily.
However, I never hear of deaths, riots, or calls for religious (or other) war because of it. Not even in Texas.
Your comparison is inadequate.