Ways To Improve Going Forward: Your thoughts on the matter.

[Jragon]

Reddit is a garbage comparison for the SDMB. Reddit is fundamentally a forum of forums, with some news aggregator DNA from older sites like Digg. SDMB isn’t quite comparable to a subreddit, but maybe a cluster of subreddits. I feel like it’s an extremely apples or oranges comparison and not a good idea to try and ape anything.

Patreon is a good idea, with tiered rewards of some sort.

I don’t care too much about avatars (I’m in favor but not enough to fight), but images are really something we should add. They’re not a problem on almost any other site, and I think the only major problems would be rabble rouser members who hate the idea and want to sabotage it. Images are immensely useful for maps, math (I’m not even going to suggest adding mathjax functionality which would be better, but at LEAST equation images), cafe society stuff, and a ton of other things. I honestly don’t know what the resistant people think is going to happen if we enable them. Are they concerned about not being able to use the forum with Lynx? Clicking on a dozen links is just a massive pain. Just a general HCI note is it’s kind of hard to get people to click links to supporting documents. People rarely click through to citation links, much less read them in full. Inlining images bypasses that for at least image citations, and allows people to create their own supporting arguments and increase the chance it’ll actually be considered.

While a Youtube presence or podcast could be something workable, Youtube and podcast fame is hard to come by due to so much competition. The Straight Dope column on the site was already quite niche, and unless the content has an absurd amount of polish, or the host an incredible amount of charisma (+ a ton of luck), it’s an avenue we’d risk pouring resources into and getting nothing out of. It’s not necessarily bad idea, but is a risk.

Letting us spend money on garbage like extended ranges of smileys, or other dumb bells and whistles can work. Hell, if we add avatars charge $5 each time you change it. You just need to balance it against becoming gouge-worthy. Don’t let it become mobile-level microtransactions.

[davidm]

What about allowing embedding of videos, at least in Cafe Society?

Do we or do we not get a lot of Google traffic? Google loves this place. Aren’t they making money from ads?

What about a modified version of pay to post? Non-members can post but only X times a day, or non-members can only start X threads a week.

Others have mentioned T-Shirts. Amazon Merch (Google it) makes it easy. They handle payments, shipping, taxes, etc. You upload an image and collect a percentage on every shirt sold.

[puzzlegal]

@Macca26

…I’m a much-dreaded Millenial. Which is to say, a person between 20 and 35. Probably the type of person you want to attract.

I’m a boomer. But I’m a relatively new poster, so I’m also your potential demographic.
Maybe you would like some insight to us younger folk, in that case. This post will be long.

@Macca26

…
I got here by searching google with questions I had. The SMDB popped up fairly often…You certainly have no other web presence. The column is not even a blip on my radar.

I got here because a friend recommended it, but he recommended it for the forum content. Despite being old enough to vaguely remember the straight dope column when it was “hot”, I don’t think that has been a draw for decades. It certainly had nothing to do with my finding the site, nor with my staying. I have only read one or two columns in the time I’ve been here, and only when a forum post linked to it.

@Macca26

…this absolutely causes an ingroup, and an outgroup feeling. And I know I am part of that outgroup, … The board culture is probably hard to see by those on the ingroup, but it reads as one really snarky clique. The board is actually not at all welcoming and almost actively tries to snark new people away…Politics has nothing to do with the large scale picture as many other posters bemoan, though on the ingroup you probably have a rift due to politics

this is true. I’ve actually had a couple of posters reach out to me, and one saved my Japanese vacation by putting me towards 7/11 banking. But I’ve also had some weird hostile interactions. I said something about guns not being openly carried where i live, and some poster assaulted me with rude questions about exactly where that was, as if it’s bizarre that somewhere in the US people aren’t gung-ho about guns. I’ve been here a couple years and still feel very out-group.

@Macca26

…I’ll admit it. I use an ad blocker. Your ads have been malicious and I will never put up with ads like that. Your ads are absolutely keeping people away. Get better ads or figure out how to remove them. Webcomics as a whole figured out how to have good ads that I can unblock, so you can too. …

seconded

@Macca26

…I would never buy merchandise. That said, it’s a no-brainer as others have mentioned. Use a site that prints and fulfills for you, and you will get some kind of income for little effort. In this situation, do not purchase merch up front and hope people will buy. Only stick to print on demand services (the quality is much better these days than when they started). You don’t have the funds to risk

I might buy merchandise. I might not. But setting something up on cafe press and posting a few links to it is essentially free.

@Macca26

…Patreon with subscription tiers sounds like your best bet… I would consider subscribing to Patreon. I would never consider subscribing to some weird site’s subscription format when it looks so out of date, serves such bad ads, and overall appears to be a gigantic security risk for my bank information.

seconded. And I already have a patreon account, and give a little money every month.

@Macca26

That being said, subscribing is difficult to push. If you get even 1% conversion, you’re doing good. People as a whole are used to vast swaths of the internet being served to them “for free”. After all, you can use Reddit for free, so you need to have an extremely good reason to convince people to pay … You will not convert people if you don’t make it extremely obvious how to do so

I second all of this. To those of you who say, “why don’t you pay?” I ask, do you even internet? The vast majority of the internet is free. Mostly funded with well behaved ads.

@Macca26

…
Facebook is dead…People under 35 are leaving it in droves. …

interesting. It still seems popular among my younger friends, although some are talking about how to get off it.

@Macca26

…
A presence on Twitter is now too late…

probably true

@Macca26

…
The ideas about a Youtube/Twitch/Streaming channel where people offer up their expert advice or projects sounds great in theory but in practice is near impossible…I imagine such a channel in actuality being cringe-worthy to watch

yeah, I had a similar reaction. Good content is valuable for a reason.

@Macca26

…A new board forum for posting about your pet projects or general expertise? Making a dedicated AMA forum? (The general public freakin’ LOVES AMAs) A moderated front page to pick out an interesting new topic in one of these two new boards? People might not be able to stream, but you know they can type. I might actually stick around for content like that.

I like these ideas.

@Macca26

…
In sum, you need to make the board engaging and friendly if you want new users, and then you want to make it easy for them to give you money for perks.

yup. Make it easy. Easy to read, easy to search, easy to buy, easy to donate.

[puzzlegal]

Eh, I missed the edit window, because my train went under ground and the edited part failed. Sorry.

I don’t care for the tight edit window, but perhaps others care a lot more.

[Tibby]

Like you all, I want the SDMB to not only survive, but thrive. To do so, I believe we have to update the appearance of the website, add fresh content and offer more services. Yes, we’re here mainly for the message boards, but they’re part of the SD website. The form and function of the website is important.

Here are a couple ideas for the message boards:
• Add a sub-forum similar to Giraffe Board’s “The Box.” Instead of suspending or banning members, stick them in The Box. For minor infractions stick them in The Box for a week. For less minor infractions, stick them in The Box for a month. For ban worthy infractions, stick them in The Box for life, with no chance of parole (unless they pay a hefty fine [or buy a 3-year membership], and bring pie).
• Add a sub-forum specifically for trolls. Call it something like *Trollin’, Trollin’, Trollin’ *(set to the theme of the TV show, “Rawhide”). Why? Because troll threads can be fun, as long as they identify as troll threads. I for one, would like to read/write funny troll threads, but there’s no place to legitimately post them on the SD boards. I see including a Troll forum as a three-fold win: 1) Some current troll posters may use this forum to post in instead of the other fora now that they have an outlet. 2) Some comedic members may use this forum as an outlet to post funny The Onion.com type humor. 3) Threads in other fora that are suspected of being troll threads can be corn-fielded to the troll forum. If you don’t like troll threads, avoid “Trollin’, Trollin’, Trollin.” But, I believe a lot of us may enjoy the humor and participate. Just a thought.
• Marketplace: the “Marketplace” forum is underutilized. I suggest keeping it free for members to post, but open it up for non-members to post—for a fee (or percentage of sales). This may convert some lurkers to convert to paying membership. Alternately, members could be required to pay a small fee, and non-members required to pay a larger fee.

Here are a few ideas for the main SD website:
• It needs a 21st century makeover. “Fighting ignorance since 1973” doesn’t mean the website needs to look like it was made in 1973.
• eCommerce store. Buy wholesale/sell retail (don’t make the common mistake of buying retail and selling wholesale). The Straight Dope brand has panache (not to be confused with the doper, “Panache”). Commission a Chinese manufacturer to make SD branded novelty items, then sell them online for a sizable mark-up. Cups, pens, plush toys, yachts—whatever.
• Blog: One thing the SDMB has is talented, intelligent posters (and I’m not just speaking about me). I suggest including a “Member Blog” page whereby members (only) have the opportunity to post creative/intelligent blog posts. Let’s face it, most of us are hams and would welcome the opportunity to post what we consider ourselves to be good at. The blog page should have a number of categories, for example: “Short Stories” (creative writing), “Photos” (legitimate photography as well as funny Photoshopped pics), “I’m an Expert” (e.g. Stranger on a Train could write astrophysics blogs, Wordman could write music related blogs, Bricker could write law related blogs, Tibby or Not Tibby could write blogs on the art of lovemaking) etc.

What else could be done to increase traffic to the SD with significant conversion to paying members? Does the SD get regular SEO? Is someone monitoring Google Analytics? Are current members actively trying to recruit friends, family and intelligent associates to join the SD?

I put together a mock concept SD website, here. Take from it what you will. It’s just a test site that I’ll take offline upon request. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it highlights some of what I’ve discussed above.

I want to see the SD survive and thrive. I’ll gladly volunteer my services to help re-vamp the website, help webmaster, etc.

Well, when I say* “I’ll volunteer”* I don’t mean I’ll work for free. Just a small token of your appreciation will suffice—like this.

[iiandyiiii]

It might be a little thing, but I’ve suggested before the idea of gimmick accounts (which I recall fondly from the AV Club before they switched to Kinja – and they’re very popular on Reddit). One of my favorites from the AV Club was a poster who would frequent the Deep Space Nine episode discussions as “Rappin’ Jake Sisko”, and recap each episode in rhyme.

These could be some sort of “registered” gimmick accounts, in which the “owner” is known (at least to the mods, if not to everyone), to avoid abuse and socking. Perhaps they even have to be purchased or something. This isn’t some massive change that would guarantee anything, but it might add a little flavor if some creative Doper occasionally popped into Trump threads as “Trump’s Refrigerator”, offering the perspective of the White House appliance community.

[Helena330]

Macca26, what a great post. I like Millennials and spend a lot of time with them in classes. I’m part of the outgroup here, too. Thank you for articulating something I’d felt, but hadn’t put into coherent thought. I’ve been here for six years and some jerks have still called me a newbie.

Tibby, you forgot a “Donate” button!

[Guinastasia]

Image posting could be kept to one forum only, much the way polls are only allowed in certain ones.

@DrDeth

Indeed, that is totally wrong. Either you put your money where your mouth is, or you’re just a drain.

Well, that’s definitely an attitute that’ll draw in new members. :rolleyes:

[Guinastasia]

@Tibby or Not Tibby

I put together a mock concept SD website, here. Take from it what you will. It’s just a test site that I’ll take offline upon request. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it highlights some of what I’ve discussed above.

I like I like!!!

[Inner_Stickler]

@DrDeth

Indeed, that is totally wrong. Either you put your money where your mouth is, or you’re just a drain.

Dude, we’re not hot girls with daddy issues. You can’t neg us into becoming members.

[watchwolf49]

@Czarcasm

What thread is talking about keeping others from coming here, and what rules say you can’t say nice things about the President? If you are talking about being challenged if you say things that others disagree with and/or for which there is little to no evidence, well…of course! Would you have it otherwise?

“Why let a shitshow continue?” … the referenced thread has been deleted … but we both know how these threads go, the Politically Correct term is “dog-pile” … I understand The Click in intolerant of some ideas, but that’s no excuse to not treat a new poster with common human decency …

Quoth Jonathan Chance:

So let me get this straight.

You want us to pre-judge threads, take to ourselves an arbitrary power to close threads and intervene on poster’s behavior based solely on whether in our opinion, a thread has some sort of value?

If we did that I’d pre-emptively close a lot of threads.

Far better to allow them to go on and have us intervene when rules are broken. Your ‘not debating fair’ is another person’s ‘back and forth’. Just because you don’t like their style doesn’t mean they should be shut down. If we were to sanction people based on style each of the three of us would issue 20 warnings or more per day and Great Debates would be a ghost town.

The Click got it’s way … thread closed and deleted … the moderators don’t pre-judge, The Click does this for them …

=====

I’m guessing no one here has bothered to look up the current stock price of Sun-Times Media Holding LLC … or this discussion would be completely different …

[sigh]

The domain name here is listed on the Balance Sheet, and this is given a value as large as lawfully possible … and it’s on the “right” side of this document, meaning if the Sun-Times presents the Balance Sheet to a bank, they could say “see, this is money we have in hand, that’s why it’s safe to loan us more money” … this message board is listed on the Income Statement, and the value is strictly revenue minus expenses equals earnings and there’s no lawful way to change that value … and it is on the “wrong” side of this document, the bank will see this and say “just shut down the message board and you won’t need the loan” …

Business is business … and this business is paying a 4% tax to help fund the ACA … now go look at the BBQ Pit and see what our collective opinion is of the man who is trying to rescind this 4% tax …

Some great ideas … let’s take merchandising revenue away from the Sun-Times … let’s take subscription revenue away from the Sun-Times … let’s spend more money on flashier MB software … let’s do things that everyone else did ten years ago … what could possibly go wrong? (that’s a rhetorical question, you don’t have to answer it) …

Okay, read the OP again, the clues are there, our relationship with the Sun-Times Media Holding LLC is over, they’re being diplomatic about this, but it’s over …

1] Change our name
2] Set up on a web host unaffiliated with S-TMH LLC
3] Pay S-TMH LLC for a re-direct to our new domain name
4] Pray we have enough time to re-establish ourselves before the Federal Government allows recreational marijuana … because after that time, The Straight Dope will be Quantum Kush (tested at 23.67% THC, 0% CBD) and S-TMH LLC is going to be really pissed about that 4% tax … it’s a Balance Sheet thing …

I enjoy being outside The Click … comedy gold watching closed-minded people gyrate to appear to be open-minded … it’s eye-for-an-eye and now we are all blind … it’s like watching the neighborhood “Crazy Cat Lady” the way y’all go looking for trolls to feed …

Hate me for saying this if you wish, I honestly don’t mind … we’re insolvent right now, so it’s too late to fix things … what was done to prevent this failed completely … just doing more of what fails is still going to fail …

Disclaimer: I was a Cecil Adams fan before HTTP was implemented …

[watchwolf49]

@Tibby or Not Tibby

[snip] … I put together a mock concept SD website, here. Take from it what you will. It’s just a test site that I’ll take offline upon request. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it highlights some of what I’ve discussed above … [snap]

@Guinastasia

I like I like!!!

Easy Peasy … the name is under copyright protection though … “Cite or Sit Down” … “The Cite Site” … go with our strengths …

[Czarcasm]

Back Up or Back Down
The Straight Shit
The Fact Factory

[Guinastasia]

Another thing that would help a LOT: next time you get a perv like Cesario, just ban them, or stick them in a Box-type forum. I’d rather see posters like that banned right away than your occassional nutjob.

[DrDeth]

@Inner_Stickler

Dude, we’re not hot girls with daddy issues. You can’t neg us into becoming members.

Just stating a fact.

And I am so very sure you’re not a hot girl…

Does anyone really try that Neg form of dating?

[ZipperJJ]

I didn’t read the whole thread but…

I think Patreon is a good idea. I also say that I would pay much more per year than I currently do to have an ad-free Dope for ALL, with a mobile-friendly layout. I think that would bring more new members than anything.

I really enjoy the Dope, but I can’t enjoy it as much if there’s no new content and new content comes from new posters or more engaged posters. I’m willing to be part of the group of people who pay for it to exist, for my enjoyment.

They’re kind of going through this with my baseball team. They sunk a ton of money into the stadium, first making it more family friendly and then more drinking friendly and then more casual fan friendly. I don’t have kids and I don’t drink and I’m not a casual fan. But all of that stuff doesn’t bother me because it doesn’t take away from my ability to enjoy the games, and ultimately the bigger crowd generates more money for the team and turns out a better product on the field. It’s a win-win for all.

[Voyager]

@Tibby or Not Tibby

I put together a mock concept SD website, here. Take from it what you will. It’s just a test site that I’ll take offline upon request. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it highlights some of what I’ve discussed above.

I want to see the SD survive and thrive. I’ll gladly volunteer my services to help re-vamp the website, help webmaster, etc.

Well, when I say* “I’ll volunteer”* I don’t mean I’ll work for free. Just a small token of your appreciation will suffice—like this.

Awesome. The Member Blog is a great idea. I bet lots of people resist posting things which are too bloggy, so a place for them will hold people on the page.
It’s all great, but I liked that particularly.

[Voyager]

One really minor thing - a while back there was talk about getting money from referring people to Amazon from book links. Was that feasible? Anything happen on that?
Not a lot of money, definitely, but maybe something. Hell, I could create a link and then use it to buy something.
Amazon already has a way where some portion of what you purchase goes to a charity of your choosing, called Smile. I know we’re not a charity, but there are at least some options.

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

@Tibby or Not Tibby

Like you all, I want the SDMB to not only survive, but thrive. To do so, I believe we have to update the appearance of the website, add fresh content and offer more services. Yes, we’re here mainly for the message boards, but they’re part of the SD website. The form and function of the website is important.

Here are a couple ideas for the message boards:
• Add a sub-forum similar to Giraffe Board’s “The Box.” Instead of suspending or banning members, stick them in The Box. For minor infractions stick them in The Box for a week. For less minor infractions, stick them in The Box for a month. For ban worthy infractions, stick them in The Box for life, with no chance of parole (unless they pay a hefty fine [or buy a 3-year membership], and bring pie).

Speaking as someone who has posted in The Box for 8 years (confined for 6 1/2), I would strongly suggest that this suggestion not be implemented if the objective is to bring in new people and create vibrant content. The Box has its good and bad points on that particular message board for different reasons, but I don’t think it would work on this one.

It doesn’t work in practice the way it looks in theory. In theory, it looks like it would remove the problem people, leaving the other people to create awesome stuff. In practice, it solidifies the in-group, marginalizing anyone different and creating less variability in content.

If the objective is to create a strong in-group which will slowly diminish due to attrition, this is a strategy.

If the objective is to bring in new people and grow new and different content, this would have the opposite effect, IMO.

[carnivorousplant]

How is the above mentioned board financed?