He doesn’t want to live by your rules? That’s fine - he can move out. At his age maybe some real-world experience will help him chose his path. when he realizes that he has to show up at work to earn the paycheck that ensures that he has a place to sleep and food to eat, he’ll grow up. (This is supposing he doesn’t have drug issues - that’s a different story) He’ll learn that laziness isn’t a career path.
StG
He has no serious drug issues, to my knowledge. I’m sure there’s some recreational pot smoking, but I don’t see him under the influence. He doesn’t have appear to have the inclination towards drug abuse as he has mentioned he doesn’t really like the way the side effects make him feel, by and large. He doesn’t have any dependents…yet. It’s just him and his future. At this point, I’d like to think he isn’t a lost cause.
The thing I fear most is that right now he’s not on drugs, but if he finds himself desperate enough and among other desperate people is that going to lead to more self-destructive behavior that he hasn’t yet gotten caught up in: drug dealing and abuse, theft, welfare babies, et cetera.
On the other hand, it could be the wake-up call that really motivates him start listening to the advice for getting himself on a better track. Everyone has been telling him, the HS diploma is the top priority that looks to be the main door opener. The GED is a pale alternative, better than nothing, but why settle for less when you are close and perfectly capable of getting the diploma? Why!? Because he doesn’t want to do the things that he doesn’t like doing. So, he’s setting himself up for a lifetime of that just to eke out a subsistence. Mind-boggling.
Thank you, missred, for the Job Corps recommendation. I hadn’t heard of that and found their website. We have a JC facility in town and I’m going to look into that and see if he’s open to it. I’m only here for another month, and after that he’s really on his own. He won’t have any family to keep on him, feed him when he’s hungry, find services for him and encourage him to find his way. That may be the worst thing or best thing for him. I know some of us need to hit the bottom to find the motivation to turn things around, but that destroys some people. I don’t want him to be destroyed or even worse off. I still think that he has a lot to offer the world. He’s like a geode, not much to be impressed by on the outside, but on the inside he has value and potential. He has a strong, inquisitive mind and does care about people, despite his lack of personal ambition. I might be biased, but so many people have seen the same in him that I believe it. Maybe, he doesn’t.
That’s the rub. I think you’re right, but then again I have tremendous guilt about this. I feel obligated and responsible to provide the roof over his head and basic necessities because he’s still just 17. But, I have a younger child also to be concerned about and his presence in our home is disruptive for everyone, including her. She’s old enough to worry about him and be angry at me for not making him stay here, but too young to understand that he can’t be here.
My rules are simple and straightforward. Go to school and DO the work, don’t just be a warm body. Be respectful towards other people and our environment meaning don’t spew obscenities at us when we tell you that you can’t do/have something, don’t break stuff and stomp around disturbing the neighbor below us. Pick up after yourself and take out the trash at the very least. Show some initiative to learning to be a self-supporting individual, that’s all we’re trying to prep you for. Chores, even the most basic, are not a punishment, but a responsibility. I don’t want to be his maid and warden, I’m just trying to be a mother.
Enforcing these simple rules have only resulted in so much turmoil and strife, we have ceased to be effective as parents. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want your help. I tried to teach him that responsibility is inevitable and leads to the rewards he wants. There’s no free ride in the “real world.” I am starting to feel like an enabler despite the fact that I’m not trying to be. Making him take responsibility for his destructive behavior has only resulted in certain doors closing for him, and of course, he blames me (not that I accept that). There doesn’t seem to be any carrot we dangle for him or consequence that is too dire.
He certainly needs more therapy, but relative poverty and our peculiar circumstances make it much more difficult to get. And therapy only helps if he’s open to tackling his problems and changing his behavior. We haven’t cracked that nut, yet. He was in therapy last year and quit because he didn’t see it helping and felt it was a waste of his time. Actually, it was, for me, for the therapist and for a kid who thought it was stupid. If I’d had the money, I would have sent him to one of those behavior modification camps or military school, but that wasn’t an option. Grasping at straws has been a constant theme. Here I am, still searching for the answers.
Air Force recruiter chiming in now. I empathize with the OP, I deal with young people in that exact situation every day. The standards for the Air Force are higher, but waivers are common. If you want to see if he is qualified for the Air Force, PM me and I’ll ask a few questions (probably the same ones SSgt Schwartz asked) and give you a correct assesment of his qualifications. I DO think the Air Force is the best branch (I am biased 
)and it is a life changer. The Air Force is typically less physically demanding, but togher mentally. No disrespect to any other branch, but our lifestyle is more conducive to school and family than others. Many young people get the impression that it is easier because of this. If he really wants to be an Airman and doesn’t get his diploma, he will have to score a 65 on the ASVAB if he has a GED. Contrary to popular belief, he can join the AF with a GED. Best of luck to you and the young man.
They do have an Oceanography Office and enlisted positions within that would be Aerographer’s Mates (AE). So he might be interested in that - and if he is, perhaps he’d be more willing to do the work it takes to get there.
The fact that he has an opinion on the war makes him sound a lot less like a lost cause than I thought after reading the OP. If he has an opinion, then he actually cares, which is important.
I can’t help with the employment issue but if I might suggest you might convince him to volunteer for a campaign. It’ll look great on a resume and at least get him out of the house and being productive.
Oh, he’s very introspective and philosophical at times. I have been very proud listening to his thought processes and moral discussions. Several teachers have commented that when they managed to get him to write about something he’s interested in, they were impressed as well. There’s no doubt that he’s a bright and compassionate person.
When he was about eleven or twelve, he mentioned out of the blue that he objected to capital punishment and then participated in a discussion about the death penalty in which he spelled out his moral objections. He included arguments about the impact on society related to the DP being ineffective as a deterrent. He’d really thought it out and understood the implications of incarceration, punishment and rehabilitation. We were floored. He was very serious and eloquent in presenting his ideas. I don’t think I’d ever discussed it with him before, so I’m not sure if he’d gotten those ideas from me. Nonetheless, I was very proud of him.
We tried that before. He did a little volunteering for a guy running for local council. He didn’t choose the candidate, though and wasn’t really interested in that guy’s politics; he’d arranged the job through the school’s community service program. I don’t think he put a lot of effort into it, nor found it interesting, and ended up completing his CS requirement elsewhere. He’d probably have been more interested in something a bit more grassroots, if you know what I mean. But that was then, he’s pretty self-centered right now.
When I worked at a local hotel some years ago, one of our maids was a new enlistee in the Army who was leaving the hotel for basic training. She didn’t show up for transportand MPs came to the hotel looking for her. I was surprised, though I don’t know why I should have been. She was even more surprised when they found her. She was very nice but not very smart; I guess she thought that you could quit the military the same way you could quit your job as a hotel maid: By just not showing up.
Anyway, good luck with your son, BEG
DUPE post. Please delete.
See, that sounds good to me. Kinda, sorta wish I was 17 and able to pursue something like that.
The Navy also has diver positions for enlisted. I imagine that diving would be something my son would enjoy, if even to retrieve ordnance or scrape the hull of a ship.
Gah! I just got off the phone with my son. He says he’s not interested in Job Corps because he doesn’t want to be in a program for 12 to 18 months to learn a job skill and get his GED. He feels his priority right now is to get a job. What kind of job, I ask? A job that will pay the bills so he can go to college. He said he’s turned in about 5-10 applications, but not a single one has called him back? Why, I ask. Because I have no experience. So, why not learn a marketable skill? Because I don’t have time. But you’re 17!!! Now is the time to learn those skills and get your diploma while you still have so many resources available to you. It’s not going to be easier when those resources dry up.
He says I keep offering him options that he’s not interested in and if I really wanted to help, I would help him get a job. How am I supposed to do that? He doesn’t know. That’s the typical answer to everything. I don’t know. How are you going to pay for the GED? I don’t know. How are you going to study for it? I don’t know. How are you going to land a job? I don’t know. He’s hoping for a miracle to drop in his lap, I guess.
I suppose I am expected to pay for his GED and study for him, ask my husband to drive him around looking for a job at his convenience, and support him while he sits around waiting for his miracle. I can’t do it anymore.
God, I’m so frustrated.
Kicking him out of the house and letting him try to find a place to live, transportation, and food for himself on a minimum wage job should do a nice job convincing him of this.
Well, we didn’t technically kick him out of the house, but we agreed to let him stay with a friend. Who is now kicking him out because she can’t support him and he’s not making any progress to support himself.
So, now I’m faced with him coming back to my house and since he’s still 17, I don’t think I can legally refuse to take responsibility for him. But I can establish rules and have told him if he comes back, he’ll need to go to school and if he doesn’t, he’ll answer to truancy charges. He’s now making some phone calls to see if he can find some other place to sack out.
It would seem pointless at this point to file delinquency charges again because his hearing would probably not happen until after he turns 18. In my experience, not much really happens as a result anyway except for community service, which doesn’t seem to phase him much.
This totally sucks.
A few interesting things in what you have said. Allow me to highlight a few.
Here’s the thing. If he doesn’t support the war, then it['s all kinds of bad to pressure him into the military. It would be exactly the wrong choice for him, and wrong of you to push him into it.
If he enlists, there is a fairly high chance that he may be involved in the war in some way. Is this something you really want? Do you want him to put aside his own personal beliefs, and go and fight for a cause that he thinks unjust? Do you really want your son to be the type of person who puts aside his own moral principles for pay?
You say that you are encouraging him not to let go of the things he likes. Yet you are pressing him into going against what he believes in. How do you reconcile that?
Maybe not. It’s quite possible that he will never see combat. Maybe he will spend his career several thousand miles from the action, pushing paper, making sure that the front line troops get supplied with bullets on a regular basis.
Even so, that will still be participation in a war that is against his own moral principles. Doing so would *still *mean abandoning what he believes to be right.
Is that what you want for him?
Suppose you succeed in pressing him into it? Will that really “straighten him out?” Certainly it will open up career paths for him. But will it help him as a person?
Probably he will hate the job. Perhaps he will hate himself for it. Quite likely he will resent you for pushing him into it. Maybe pushing him down this path will totally screw him up as a person.
Seriously, if he does not find the military to be an attractive career, then pushing him into it against his will is a bad idea.
Would the French Foreign Legion take him? IIRC you are allowed to leave after 6 months or so if you want.
With regard to getting him a job, are you a shareholder in a local business or a business with a local office? Or you could ask him if he’s applied to the local fast food places; if he complains about that, remind him that several of the McDonalds board started by flipping burgers.
Why does he think it’s your responsibility to get him a job? It’s not your responsibility to get him a job, plan his future, or wipe his butt. In a few months he’ll be 18 and you’ll be gone. He’d better man up. You can’t live his life for him, and despite your best efforts (and presumably you did your best, even if that wasn’t always what Dr. Phil would’ve done) he’s chosen to be a layabout. Now he has to fix that. He doesn’t need therapy, he needs to get off his ass.
I suggest you let him read this thread.
StG
He may not politically support this war, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t believe in a national military force. I don’t agree with this war either, but I believe the military offers an incentive to individuals that are willing to participate in it.
That isn’t my first choice, no. Neither is it something to be ashamed of regardless of whether you agree with the choices of politicians.
No, in the same way I wouldn’t want to see him put aside his moral principles to feed himself on the streets. Maybe I’m naive, but I’m certain that the military isn’t just about aggression, but can serve a community and society in a productive manner. In my younger days, I wouldn’t have argued with someone who proposed that the military was nothing more than a bunch of warmongers, but experience has taught that isn’t the case. In many cases military activities are, in fact, intended to protect and serve our own nation and humanity at large. Yes, I find it somewhat ironic to say that, but I’ve experienced firsthand the humanitarian efforts of our military during a natural disaster. My own husband spent six years in the military and learned a trade that supported our family when he became a civilian. Before that he was delivering pizza. He has very strong moral values, yet got a lot out of a military service that did not involve killing people.
Read above. I’m hoping he can reconcile enjoying the things he likes to do with doing something productive. Not everyone gets lead a glamorous life in which they can do whatever the hell they want. Most everyone has a boss and has to do a job they may not like. I don’t believe I enjoy paying taxes, and I feel that I’m taxed too much for services that don’t meet my standards. But guess what, that’s life. It doesn’t make me less principled for contributing to the fund for a war I don’t agree with. Neither does it make a person less principled for serving his country by providing weather reports to troops on the ground.
I disagree. I see an opportunity for him to improve his own future while serving his country and potentially improving someone else’s. There’s nothing wrong with getting something lasting out of the experience; it’s the least the country can do for volunteer personnel. It isn’t necessarily a sure thing that he would not see combat, but as a mother, I can only hope the best for him. Living on the streets and spending the rest of his life struggling is also not a sure thing that he wouldn’t find himself shedding his moral principles. And it also offers a lot less opportunity for his future.
What I want for him is a good future. Could he get it through the military? Sure. Could he lose it forever through the military? Sure. Same answers for a young man in crisis outside the military I suspect.
Maybe. Seems to be a few people around here with anecdotal data indicating it’s possible. No doubt there are many more outside of the Dope.
All quite possible. He’d probably hate prison too and he might blame me as well if he ended up there because he didn’t feel I did a good enough job as a mother. And maybe I haven’t. Raising a troubled teen is not easy for even the best parents and there’s no way to prepare yourself. If you don’t think I’m second-guessing every decision I make with regard to him, you’d be dead wrong. I wonder everyday how to help my boy and if I’m doing the right thing that will someday allow him to enjoy his life and the fruits of his labor, as well as appreciate where he came from and how he overcame his challenges. Some people suggest he will thank me some day for the choices I’ve made. I don’t really know, but even if he never spoke to me again, if he turned himself around for the better, that’d be all the thanks I need. I’ve shed a lot of tears over this boy, but I know without a doubt that he’s worth it.
Well, you may be right. I can’t make his choices for him. I can’t even manage to push him back into school. Nobody seems to be able to do that, so it’s all moot. My brain is telling me, I don’t want him to rely on me to make those life-changing decisions, but what kind of parent would I be if I didn’t encourage him, challenge him to explore his options?
I’m coming in late to this thread, but I will add that enlisting in the Navy can be a very good thing for a lot of young people. Both my wife and I served as officers in the Navy–we would have no problem encouraging our son to serve in the Navy as well, either as an officer or enlisted.
If your son wants a good picture about what Navy life is like, I suggest he watch some or all of the recent 10-part PBS series Carrier. It’s the most realistic portrayal of life in the Navy that I have ever seen.
FWIW, several of sailors depicted in the series do not support our Iraq policy (nor do I, for that matter). However, the first thing you learn in the military is that the military does not set policy. That is the job of politicians.
I have always had enough faith in our nation and its institutions that I had no problem following the lawful orders of my military superiors, up to the Commander-in-Chief, even if I did not personally agree with the policy decisions made. I did not hate my job, nor did I hate myself. On the contrary, I was extremely proud of my service.
The oath an enlisted person takes in the U.S. military is:
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
Hah, I wish. But even then I wonder how employable he is at this point. I have gotten him a job before and he abandoned it (ok, that was a couple of years ago) because he thought the work was demeaning. It was kind of demeaning, but I ended up taking it over because I needed the extra money. He didn’t see a penny of it. So, it wasn’t all that bad, but then again maturity is the determining factor there. Wonder what it was? I worked in a business in a strip mall that hired high school kids to clean the parking lot (sweep walkways and pick up trash out of the gardens and lot). I knew the landlord, so I recommended him for it. They hired him to work on a very flexible schedule, but the schedule he chose didn’t meet the needs of the tenants and they complained. I was informed, he was warned and decided he didn’t want to put more effort into it. My husband and I ended up taking the job for the rest of the season after an embarrassing phone call with the landlord that my son wasn’t cutting it.
It’s not likely I’ll be recommending him for a job any time soon.
Sure, and there’s also anecdotal evidence of many Viet Nam veterans who were forced into service during a war that they didn’t agree with. Look at them, and understand that this is what you might be doing to your son.
you know, reading your comments, I can’t help feeling that maybe some of the blame lies with you. You report that he wants to look for a job, and is actively sending out applications. You say he wants you to help him get a job, but you don’t know how. Maybe you can help him best by actually lending him moral support and encouraging him to pursue this path. Stop sneering at him, just because he rejects the job that YOU have chosen.
What exactly has he done that’s so bad? He doesn’t do chores, and what else?Is that it? Is he doing drugs? Stealing? Anything particularly bad? You haven’t said.
It sounds to me like he’s perfectly ordinary. So what if he goes for a minimum wage job? Is that really so bad? Maybe he’d be happy serving burgers. What exactly is your objection to this.