And that doesn’t change the fact that some people like cars that you don’t like.
Yeah, I did, actually. Brand emphasis.
Commented on that one too. The answer is pretty obvious even to someone who doesn’t know.
You should read responses to your posts.
Please try to remember that you are entitled to your opinion, and so is everyone else. What you find chunky, bulky, awkward and obnoxious may be sculptural, balanced, proportioned, and trendy to another. If you like something, you should find others who do too as opposed to criticizing other people’s tastes. You’d be surprised at how much more people will be open to what you like if you express an interest in what they like.
And as long as I’m repeating what I’ve already said, I’ll ask again if you’ve got any design ideas you’d like to share because I’m always interested in seeing what kids of conceptual renderings come from those who claim to have good ideas … of course, you haven’t really offered anything but criticism so I guess I have no way to tell if you do. I showed you some of my illustrations, so let’s see yours.
I realize that the chunky shit is more ergonomic. What I’m asking is why does it NEED to be more ergonomic? For most of auto history we haven’t had those thick-ass handles and shifters and steering wheels - why do we need it all of a sudden? I personally find a large-diameter, thin steering wheel much more comfortable (like the one on my friend’s Olds Eighty-Eight.)
As to brand recognition, if they really wanted to do something for brand recognition they would focus on making truly unique designs that would be easily identified with their brand. Instead of Chevy ripping off the PT Cruiser, or all these curvy minivan-esque SUVs ripping off each other, or Toyota ripping off the Honda Element for its new FJ Cruiser.
I just want to see one new car that’s not bulky and chunky and cheapy looking. One single new car that rolls off the factory this year.
Just forget I ever said “ugly” and substitute the word “chunky” instead. The cars now are chunky. This is not subjective, it is the truth, the cars being made now are chunky. Why can’t there be a single new car that isn’t like this?
I obviously haven’t said this enough times yet. People like to be more comfortable in their cars than they were 30 years ago. Research has shown that your preference for a big, thin steering wheel is not what the market demands because people want thicker, smaller wheels and larger controls that are easier to find, turn, and see.
The brand recognition I’m referring to is the growing size of the logo plaques that you were referring to. They didn’t used to be very big or prominent in the grille. Now they are, and those grilles are increasingly utilizing certain shapes and materials to distinguish themselves. Every manufacturer from Kia to Mercedes Benz is doing this, so I don’t know what to say except that you should get used to it.
Chevy did not rip off the PT Cruiser, they simply wanted in on the same retro trend that Ford and Chrysler have jumped on. The HHR draws inspiration from the Chevy Suburban of the late 40’s, not the PT Cruiser. Both vehicles resemble one another because they borrow from the late 40’s school of fat-fender truck and hot rod design.
The FJ Cruiser draws inspiration from the Toyota FJ40 built throughout the 60’s and 70’s which eventually became the springboard for the Land Cruiser, in much the same way that the Celica became the springboard for the Supra, and the Camry became the springboard for the Lexus ES. Toyota has a history of doing this sort of thing.
And I say (again) that you should draw us an example of whatever it is you think that vehicle should look like.
To start with, Toyota’s not ripping off the Element. It’s calling back to its own history, the famous Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 series.
Well, the points about chunky. Chunky’s a good question. Certainly, the wheels are pushed to the extremes, in order to improve handling. And we can handle more complex curves these days in sheet metal. But the question is, what is chunky if that Mustang isn’t? Is the Solstice chunky? Is the Vette?
The Miata? http://mazda.jbcarpages.com/MX5/2006/
The Honda S2000?
The Saturn Sky?
They all seem fairly svelte.
Oh, yes, it was the Ariel Atom, thank you. Watch it in action here…
Lovely design, though I’m going to stick with the build-your-own Caterham styling I saw in Make Magazine last issue. It will be finished, one day.
Because people spend more time in their cars and want them to be ergonomic/comfortable. My first car was as '62 Olds 98 with the steering wheel like you describe. I could also fit me and 5 of my freinds in it. Newer cars are smaller, steering systems have become better, there is not the need for the huge deep well steering wheel. For most people the thicker steering wheel feels better and gives you more grip. Remember all those ‘leather’ steering wheel wraps that where so popular in the '70’s?. I think that car design is getting much, much better. The '80’s where bad news. Not so today.
I kind of know what you are saying AgentFrom 50 feet I can’t tell if it’s a Honda or a Toyota. That wasn’t true in the ‘60s’ BUT. As car manufacturers began paying closer attention to MPG, many of the same shapes appear.
My 62’ Olds 98 handled like a couch and got 6 miles to the gallon in town.
I’m very happy what the new cars are doing. My new Pathfinder has 270 hp out of a V6. And gets 21 mpg on the road. Not sure about the in town gas mileage, since I don’t do any city driving.
I think it is subjective, because I’m not sure what you mean by “chunky” here. I think cars today (though not SUVs) look very aerodynamic and clean. The Mach 1 has a lot more unnecessary protrusions and bulges than a Prius.
Funny the '71 Mach 1 should come up again in this thread.
Today in class one of my students a true Ford Freak. He owns 11 of them. He drove to school in one of his '71 Mach 1s
We got to talking after class about the styling.
His comment is that people did not like the car since it was too big and unwieldy to park in particular. The rear window is close to useless. He also says the rear seat is a joke for anyone over the age of 8.
My comment was I thought it was a pretty car, but too big. I said that if they could wash it hot water and shrink about 2-3 feet off it length it would be a great car. He said that I was right, that would have made it perfect.
Styling is a very personal thing. The trick that a car designer has to do is balance several things to come up with a style that enough people like that it will sell. Somebody is going to hate every design out there. The trick is to get a design that works for enough people.
For example we (Volvo) have a new convertible hardtop that everyone who has seen mine has said just how good looking it is. Everyone except this one guy who hated it. sorry dude the box score is hate it = you. Love it = everybody else.
I’ve heard of design meetings where designers are given thick pads to restrict their movement and let them see how someone elderly feels in a car, perhaps why everything is “chunkier” today?
Personally I hate the look of all new Peugeots, they have a corporate grill that features what looks like a big goofy gaping smile. See here.
Large diameter thin steering wheels? You mean like the one I always replaced with a small diameter, thick, racing type steering wheel?
As for the ergonomic shit… well, we haven’t had all these pollution control stuff through most of auto history. Is that a reason not to use them now? I replaced my shifter in my old '74 Duster with one that felt bigger and more solid (after I replaced the steering wheel of course). Of course, I put new gas, brake, and clutch pedals in too (who can survive without a gas pedal shaped like a foot? ;)).
To me cars are so low-tech. they should be orders of magnitude more advanced in design. why do we still have steering wheels? they should be replaced by joysricks-or game-controller handsets. Wht shift levers? The 1965 Chrysler had pushbuttons for the transmission-worked very well! Why the traditoonal gauge set? A computer could give you auditory warnings. Replace the dashboard with a big padded wall-and get rid of the 19th-century stuff!
Honestly, because joysticks and game controller handsets aren’t really as comfortable for long, controlled drives. Also, it’d require serious driver retraining for the older sorts. Pushbutton transmissions are sort of back in the modern paddleshift automanual, by the way. But the auditory warnings? People tried it. 80s. “The door is ajar”. People hated it. Also, easily swamped by radio. Flashing lights in odd positions draw attentions and deliver more information than sounds. Plus, again, they’re persistant.
Old doesn’t mean wrong. Gauges and needles are very easy to read, and that’s what matters.
But imagine trying to drive to work in a car controlled by a PS2 controller. Every time you tried to change the radio, your tires would recenter. Bad idea. Joystick might work, but you’d have it completely dependent on having power. Power goes out, like the engine stalling… no steering, either. Have fun!
IIRC, someone test drove a car with a joystick (there’s been concept cars with joysticks since the 1960s, and cars were originally equipped with tillers that looked like joysticks) and had lots of problems (tended to overcompensate).
Not according to my brother. My parents had one when he was a kid, and the cables were always kinking, so you couldn’t put the car in gear (or take it out of gear) and since my brother had the smallest arms, he’d have to crawl under the dash and unkink the cables.
The nice thing about gauges, is that I can tell if the coolant or oil is low by where the needle sits, well before it gets to the danger zone, so I can top the fluids up and not have to worry about damaging the engine.
With seatbelts and airbags, why do you need a padded dash? In an accident, you’re not going to be anywhere near the dash, so there’s no need to pad it.
