We can actually get rid of nearly all unauthorized immigrants

Explain to me why this wouldn’t work:

Require e-verify for all companies and for all professional licensing and for all business licensing. All employers must run e-verify on their current workforces. Understanding that there will be errors, employees who come up with a mismatch will have 90 days to go to their local Social Security office and straighten things out. All employees who do not have a real SS# issued to them will be fired.

WOuldn’t this get rid of pretty much all unauthorized immigrants very quickly?

That doesn’t sound business friendly to this donor, as a candidate for this upcoming election it will be difficult for you if tell me you are not friendly to business.

What prevents an employer from paying their undocumented workers under the table in cash?

Presumably employers are mostly using illegal immigrants because they’re cheaper (e.g. no need to pay taxes), so you’d need to check all employers have run e-verify on all their employees.
That sounds expensive…

Also, if I’m reading Wiki correctly (and if Wiki is accurate), what you describe is already the law in some states. Have those states seen a significant reduction in undocumented workers?

Some employers do intentionally hire illegal workers, but it seems that most do get the required documents. Which are fake.

Large illegal worker populations appear to only be in a few states, and it looks like those states are not using e-verify at all(California, which actually has passed laws AGAINST it), and Florida and Texas(who limit it to government employees). Arizona has mandated e-verify, and according to this report, it has caused a lot of movement out of Arizona by illegal workers:

However, the estimated reduction in the illegal population is only 19%, although at the time of the report it wasn’t fully implemented yet, and only applies to new hires. So 19% is at least significant, and it might actually have grown a lot.

Also, it turns out the state isn’t really enforcing the law all that well.

It seems that the issue with getting rid of illegal immigrants is less about our ability to do so than our will. But even the steps Arizona took seem to have had a pretty significant effect. But if Donald Trump was to be President, it does appear that he has the means to move a lot of illegals out, and E-verify is just one of those means.

Going through that list of states, it doesn’t look like any really have tough e-verify laws that are even close to comparable to the federal law that requires employers to obtain SS#s. Some “require” it, but don’t do audits, instead just allowing employers to use it as a defense if it turns out some of their employees are unauthorized to work.

But let me make this simple, just for the sake of argument. If we assume a system in place that can prevent employees from getting jobs if they do not have a valid SS#, wouldn’t that pretty much end our illegal immigration problem? Yes, I know businesses can pay under the table, but that’s not really one of the primary sources of illegal employment. If it became that way, then obviously we’d have to find different means to fight the problem(or just give up and stop requiring employers to collect SS#s in the first place).

It won’t stop illegally present people from getting work, but it WILL increase identity theft.

Identity theft among illegal immigrants is nearly universal. I don’t see how this would worsen the problem. If it gets even the minimum 19% to leave, you’ve reduced identity theft by 19%.

I’d like to read more about this “universal” identity theft. Got a link?

How do you think they get jobs, when all jobs require a SS#?


The IRS has a list of about 9 million people whose names on their tax returns don’t match their SS#. It’s not random either. The vast majority are in states like California, Arizona, and Texas:

And that brings me to the next reform that would drive them all out: have the IRS and SSA start informing people when their identity is being used by someone else. Then those people in turn can contact local authorities or the FBI.

Wait, you want me to report people who are paying social security taxes into my account, and income taxes in my name, so they can be deported? Why would I?

The other piece of compelling evidence is that incorrect income tax returns skyrocketed after employers were required to get SS#s from all employees in 1986.

I suppose there are some employers just paying people under the table, but that’s a hell of a risk. Much easier to just accept fraudulent documents and claim innocence. In one case, a woman applying for a job at Target didn’t get the job: because there were already 37 people using her SS#.

Heh. You wish it worked that way. The way it actually works is that the government just puts it in a seperate fund. And people have found when they retire that they haven’t actually retired, at least according to the government’s records.

Then there are the IRS notices demanding you pay income tax on that 2nd job you have on the other side of the country.

But of course nothing compels you to take action when someone else has your SS#. You can be a nice person and let them get car loans and such. But people have a right to know.

Explain to me how it works. And show your work. If the government knows enough about this fraud to put it in a separate account, why would they turn around and nag me about the problems it creates?

Why wouldn’t the IRS go after the employer who failed to collect withholding?

Usually they don’t. But sometimes they suspect YOU are the problem and act accordingly. But most of the time it stays in a separate fund, which is detailed in the cite I posted. The government doesn’t usually tip you off because they like all that extra revenue. There really is no other public purpose to not letting you know about activity on YOUR SS#.

The employer collects based on what a worker puts on their W-4. The other guy isn’t going to fill his W-4 out exactly as you do.

So, adaher supplied an article from 2005 & another more recent article–apparently written by someone (in Indiana!) who’d read the first one. I’m amazed that this Giant Scandal isn’t getting more coverage!

Toss a few illegal employers into jail. If you really think all our problems are caused by “unauthorized immigrants” that’s a step in the right direction.

Glad to see that adaher, who expressed disdain for His Party’s Probable Choice, has gotten on board with scapegoating the “unauthorized immigrants.” Next: his plan for getting rid of Muslims…

Actually, I thought we all agreed that going after employers so that it was impossible for them to get jobs was something we should be doing.

So back to the original subject, do you have any objection to making e-verify a universal requirement?

I have no objection, so long as no one is under the illusion that it will magically cause 11 million undocumented people to leave the country.

What will they do? In theory, they can’t collect benefits. But no, I’m under no illusions that all would go home. Some can support themselves, some can be supported by legal relatives. Still others work in jobs where verification is spotty at best(nannies to the rich and political).

But it seems to me that states like California object to e-verify and other states and the federal government only use it for government contractors for a good reason: they fear it will work quite well. And the budget hit will be significant since the government pockets billions in taxes from illegal labor. ALthough you’d think legal workers would have to be hired to replace them so maybe it won’t matter except in the very short run.