[QUOTE=Trotsky]
I wouldn’t mind opening up the war against Pakistan as well.
And certainly Iran.
Iraq was the ‘easy’ one to go after. I’m glad we did for preventative measures. However, there’s a lot more that we need to get to.
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
This is jingoistic dreck.
Yes, let’s attack a couple more countries for good measure because we don’t have enough problems right now. We, as a nation, could certainly handle it, externally and internally, and the rest of the world wouldn’t have a problem with it. No, not at all…
In fact, why would we even using ground troops when we have a a few perfectly good trident subs kicking around?
[QUOTE=Trotsky]
We didn’t know how the cold war would end then. And.. You didn’t live there. I know people that fled. A lot didn’t make it when the communists poured in.
It would’ve been worth it to save South Vietnam and turn it into another South Korea.. And kept it free.
But no, thanks to your mindset, we cut and run and they died and fell to a dead-end system. Same as your type wants to do with jihadist islam in Iraq now. History repeating itself.
[/QUOTE]
OTOH, Vietnam, while it remains nominally Communist, is safer, freer and more prosperous now than at any time in its long and bloody history. You have to look at things in the long run.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
OTOH, Vietnam, while it remains nominally Communist, is safer, freer and more prosperous now than at any time in its long and bloody history. You have to look at things in the long run.
[/QUOTE]
What an incredibly ignorant statement. That’s like saying after Stalin’s purges or the Kozaks things were more peaceful.
Sure, if you KILL all the opposition things are good for awhile.
And people wonder why I think the leftists encourage the murder of the opposition.. It’s because your type openly supports the results of mass genocide.
[QUOTE=Trotsky]
I wouldn’t mind opening up the war against Pakistan as well.
And certainly Iran.
[/QUOTE]
And how? We’re already stretched to the maximum trying to hold down Iraq. And you can forget about bringing back the draft, it ain’t gonna happen.
There was a lot of killing when South Vietnam fell but there was no “mass genocide.” You need to check your cites. I still think things have gone far better for that country, on the whole and in the long run, than they would have gone if the U.S. forces had stuck it out. Just as things have gone better for the Russian (and the American) people than they would have gone if the Cold War had ever escalated to a Hot War – even one without nukes.
The worst thing we can do is cut and run. It’ll make running from Vietnam look like a great thing. It’s really scary that people don’t want to finish this war off with a victory.
[/QUOTE]
Because of course, if only we stayed in Vietnam a little bit longer, we would have been victorious. :smack:
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
OTOH, Vietnam, while it remains nominally Communist, is safer, freer and more prosperous now than at any time in its long and bloody history. You have to look at things in the long run.
[/QUOTE]
Communist countries tend to be pretty safe, if you mean that they have low crime rates. You do know why, right?
Freeer? I’d like a cite for that.
More prosperous? It may well be, but I’d like a cite for that, too. And let’s keep in mind that that isn’t the relevant metric. How is it faring compared to other countries in the region as opposed to how it fared against them in the past? That’s what matters. Most countries are “more prosperous” now than they were in the past.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Communist countries tend to be pretty safe, if you mean that they have low crime rates. You do know why, right?
Freeer? I’d like a cite for that.
More prosperous? It may well be, but I’d like a cite for that, too. And let’s keep in mind that that isn’t the relevant metric. How is it faring compared to other countries in the region as opposed to how it fared against them in the past? That’s what matters. Most countries are “more prosperous” now than they were in the past.
[/QUOTE]
Give that glutton a year in a real communist country or an islamic one and he’d be a snobbing baby to return to the evil old USA.
People that don’t know what it’s like in our enemy countries tend to praise it. Those that do know, don’t.
[QUOTE=Trotsky]
What an incredibly ignorant statement. That’s like saying after Stalin’s purges or the Kozaks things were more peaceful.
Sure, if you KILL all the opposition things are good for awhile.
And people wonder why I think the leftists encourage the murder of the opposition.. It’s because your type openly supports the results of mass genocide.
[/QUOTE]
After invading Iraq 600,000 iraqis are dead and more are coming. 2 million are refuges and more are getting out. I have seen that pacification working in El Salvador before.
(And it was the Bush administration that came up with the idea of applying an “El Salvador Option” in Iraq.)
[QUOTE=Mosier]
It’s a bit of a straw-man fallacy to say that the US is just trying to shoot the terrorists until there aren’t any more left, though. Almost everyone knows that’s just silly.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not a strawman at all. Well, at least it wasn’t back during the CPA days.
I’m still waiting for the question I asked a while ago, Trotsky: How are the Islamists going to conquer the world?
I say they’re too weak. The most they can do is kill a few Westerners here and there in hit-and-run terrorist attacks. That’s something we should try to prevent, obviously, but on the threat-o-meter it’s barely a tick compared to the historical threats posed by Nazism and Communism.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Communist countries tend to be pretty safe, if you mean that they have low crime rates. You do know why, right?
[/quote]
It’s certainly not because they’re any readier to incarcerate offenders than we are.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Freeer? I’d like a cite for that.
[/quote]
No cite, I just note that the economy has been liberalized, compared to the setup North Vietnam had during the war; and South Vietnam, for its part, while it had a market economy, had nothing to admire in its human-rights record; and the regimes that preceded both were fairly oblivious to the concept.
Of course, Vietnam is still not a free country the way that, say, Thailand is. OTOH, it is a free country in the sense of being completely independent of foreign domination. I’m sure a lot of the VC fought primarily for that, not for a Communist utopia.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
More prosperous? It may well be, but I’d like a cite for that, too. And let’s keep in mind that that isn’t the relevant metric. How is it faring compared to other countries in the region as opposed to how it fared against them in the past? That’s what matters. Most countries are “more prosperous” now than they were in the past.
[/QUOTE]
Vietnam is at any rate more prosperous, I’m sure, than it would have been if the war had dragged along another 5 or 10 years. At any rate, its economy has grown steadily more prosperous with time, especially since 1986 when the government abandoned Marxist economic planning.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
There was a lot of killing when South Vietnam fell but there was no “mass genocide.” You need to check your cites. I still think things have gone far better for that country, on the whole and in the long run, than they would have gone if the U.S. forces had stuck it out. Just as things have gone better for the Russian (and the American) people than they would have gone if the Cold War had ever escalated to a Hot War – even one without nukes.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, there was no “mass genocide” (whatever that is), but you mention “a lot of killing” like it was just a few broken eggs going into an omelet. Let’s not forget the ~1 million sent to “re-education camps” (many of whom died) and the hundreds of thousands that ended up in refugee camps or crammed into boats to get out.
[QUOTE=Pochacco]
I’m still waiting for the question I asked a while ago, Trotsky: How are the Islamists going to conquer the world?
I say they’re too weak. The most they can do is kill a few Westerners here and there in hit-and-run terrorist attacks. That’s something we should try to prevent, obviously, but on the threat-o-meter it’s barely a tick compared to the historical threats posed by Nazism and Communism.
[/QUOTE]
How?
Read the rand report on a nuclear detonation in Long Beach, of a primitive 10kt device.