Not a GD as such, but IMO more germane to the issues dissussed in this forum than the other choices. Mods please move if you feel it too off topic
Seymour Hersh talks about Abu Ghraib and Iraq. Fairly interesting article.
Pulitzer Prize-winning author examines how U.S. got from 9/11 to the war in Iraq
IOW, the Pentagon will not deny the story.
I have not much to add about the Abu Ghraib scandal, which is appalling.
But why did Hersh choose to use the “hillbilly kids out of control” quote? Would he have used the quote if it contained a different ethnic slur? Seems to me like Hersh is engaging in some bigotry by proxy.
But I suppose we “hillbillies” are considered fair game.
Of course he would have used the quote if it conatined a different slur. If Cheney had said “we have a bunch of niggers out of control,” do you think that Hersh would not have used it?
I honestly have no idea what your point is. Cheney is the guy who said “hillbillies,” not Hersh. What is a journalist supposed to do, change the quote?
Exactly. Instead of writing (anywhere) in the letter: “These allegations are false,” they basically just said: “Mr. Hersh has been wrong on many occasions… oh! Look at the dancing monkey! Isn’t he cute? Just look at him!”
LilShieste
DtC: Cheney is the guy who said “hillbillies,” not Hersh.
As I read the linked excerpt, Hersh attributed that quote to an unnamed “former senior intelligence official”, not to Cheney.
I agree that the “hilbilly” slur is unwarranted. But I think Hersh was justified in repeating it because it illustrates an important issue: namely, how the Administration is presenting Abu Ghraib as a case of “bad apples in the rank and file”, rather than the result of bad choices at higher levels.
It wasn’t a quote from Cheney, but from an unnamed “senior intelligence official.”
Is the quote necessary to the story? I don’t think so. The point was made when the quoted official called the perpetrators “the kids at the end of the food chain.” (The point being that they were trying to pin the crime on those at the bottom of the chain of command.)
The “hillbilly” slur was gratuitous and added nothing to the story. I’m not sure what good purpose was served by Hersh repeating it (and thus perpetuating stereotypes). Maybe he was trying to expose the bigotry of the unnamed official. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
And I’ll admit to being a bit prickly on this point.
Well, since we’re talking about food chain issues. It was fascinating watching the Abu Ghraib Senate hearings yesterday, and observing some of the top military commanders of our nation squirm in defense of their finely parsed determination, that while some upper ranks might be “responsible” for various derelictions of duty that led to the situation, that no upper level officers were “legally culpable”. Even some of the most military friendly Senators had questions about that logical tap dance.
My mistake on the attribution of the quote.
I disagree that the quote was not necessary. It shows the mentality of those at the top and shows a part of how they intebded to marginalize those at the bottom. Hersh is a journalist. It would have been irresponsible of him not to use the quote.
I think you’re shooting the messenger.
Or maybe he was just being a good journalist and accurately reporting the words of his source. That’s waht a reporter is supposed to do. He is not supposed to edit these conversations to eliminate offensive content.
When Jesse Jackson used the word “Hymie Town,” did you think that it was wrong for the news media to report it? Were they “perpetuating sterotypes” by doing so? Should we really put reporters in a box where they can’t accurately transcribe conversations with sources who use offensive language without accusing the journalist of bigotry?
So you’re saying a reporter must regurgitate every word a source tells him? So why didn’t the story contain a complete transcript of his interview with the senior intelligence official?
Obviously, Hersh edited. He pared the conversation down to two lines. He made a conscious decision which lines to include in the story.
Was the slur necessary to the story? I don’t think so. I think the “kids at the end of the food chain” line conveyed the essential point – that the administration was pinning the rap on those at the bottom.
Like I said, though, I’m willing to give Hersh the benefit of the doubt. Maybe by reporting the slur he was conveying the mindset of the administration.
(This is different from the “Hymietown” story. In that case, the slur was the story. It was newsworthy to have a noted civil rights leader expose his own bigotry. In the case at hand, the slur is not central to the story, it is gratuitous.)
The word “hillbilly” raises my hackles, at least when not used jokingly.
The “hillbilly” quote" was essential to the story. The very substance of the story was about how the adminstration was going to throw those at the bottom to the dogs and the nature of the quote conveyed a certain contempt and arrogance which was crucial to getting an accurate report. Hersh had to report it.
If “hillbilly” gets your hackles up, be pissed at those who wanted used that word and wanted to exploit that stereotype to save their own asses. Blaming the reporter is just silly.