(Of course, when I taught Orthodox Jewish kids, they all wore hats in school). The Orthodox smilie isn’t showing up on my options, though.
There’s also the odd occasion of students writing test answers or hints on the brims of their hats. If they aren’t wearing the had, they can’t glance up and cheat that way. It’s also, as was mentioned, annoying to have to deal with someone whose face is hidden under a hat brim all the time.
My high school allowed hats in the hallways and outside, but students (boys and girls) were expected to remove them during class. I think that’s a good compromise. They could wear them at lunch (even at the table), so it was really only during times when their attention needed to be on something other than their own looks that the rule was enforced.
In this high school, though, there wasn’t a large population (or anyone, that I remember!) of muslim women or men or jewish men who might have some sort of religious head covering to deal with. I assume some exceptions would have been made. Besides, even a turban isn’t being used to hide behind since theres no brim - the head coverings I can think of are much more unobtrusive than a baseball or cowboy hat.
My job had a no-hat rule. The exception was turbans and hijabs. I know one man wore a turban all the time, but allowed himself the exception when he was wearing a full PAPR suit, since it wasn’t safe to wear the turban under it. Besides, the PAPR hood covered his head well enough for him. I don’t recall any women with the same situation, but for industry reasons they probably would have had to find some sort of compromise.
Yeah…it’s definitely an uphill battle.
The posters in this thread not withstanding, it seems that when one preaches the manners of hats, they only hat in their lives is an asshat, which they tend to be. You’re not an asshat, sir, being well spoken and reasonable and polite; however, you can take your monarchy and shove it. Go back to Sweden and go hatless around King Gustaf.
I’ve yet to see a single justifiable excuse for forced hat doffing, and so far the only reasons are monarchs and the good-old days and forms of enforced military subservience. Here’s an idea: I’m sick and tired of seeing people chew with their mouths open. Why doesn’t everybody forget about hats and work on that one, eh? Or using obscenities around children?
Think of it this way: etiquette is a game, of sorts. The goal of the game is to make everybody feel at ease. So, if you’re the Queen and a foreign diplomat drinks from his finger dish, you do so as well. One way to not make people uncomfortable, is to not insist on silly rules that don’t accomplish anything. Having a rule because the rule exists is no reason to have a rule at all. It’s like saying we shouldn’t change or repeal a law because the law exists.
'Twas not I who originated the custom, but rather knights of old, yea verily even before I was born. I am subject to no monarch, thenk yew veery much, but I do remove my hat as a sign of respect for my elders and betters (or, if I’m at the track, respect for my bettors.)
Actually, there have been several good reasons outlined in these posts, especially in schools. And, honestly, if any classroom teacher truly has the power to enforce any particular conduct in his/her classroom, well, my hat is off to him or her (pun acknowledged but not intended.) High school students are still young enough that “because I said so” is a valid reason available to any adult.
Yes, yes, by all means, we do need to return to better manners, table and otherwise. And civilized speech would truly be a welcome relief, especially when watching stand-up comics. I believe there is another thread on this board having to do with manners – I’m decamping for it even now.
Bring him to my mama’s house, there’ll be an instant straightening-out. 
I’ll trade you - my mom will dehat your man at the dinner table, if you convince my boyfriend that answering your phone over food is always rude, even if you’re only eating with your girlfriend and it’s your mama on the line. I say, if your mama didn’t teach you enough manners not to answer your cel phone at dinner with others (unless it’s, say, our other friend who is late to dinner, or somebody is in the hospital and a phone call might be news) then she definately doesn’t deserve to talk to her baby boy.
I appreciate all of the input though I think js_africanus could dial it down a notch. –No offense.
I agree with the compromise of allowing hats in the hallways and then at the teacher’s discretion once the students are in the classroom, mostly for the good reasons listed above. Incidentally the wearing of gang colors is not even remotely an issue at my school –thankfully.
Despite a teacher’s individual stance on the rules, we are all expected to enforce them --personal opinions of those rules notwithstanding. If a student wears a hat and passes three teachers, none of whom say anything and then approaches a fourth who directs him to remove it, it does seem like that one teacher is the one with the problem.
Add that in with the inconsistent-at-best enforcement of the county dress code and the minor controversy we had over whether to allow students to wear clothing that featured the Confederate flag, I can see why students genuinely don’t understand the rationale behind the hat-rule nor bother to comply with it.
I always thought the ‘no-hat’ rule evolved for the same reason that the ‘don’t open your umbrella in the house’ rule did: both hats and umbrellas stick out and make it easy to knock household objects and decorations off shelves and walls, damaging them.
Are there times when, according to the old rules, you can wear a hat indoors? I thought you always took your hat off. (I’m excepting religious headgear like turbans and skullcaps (is that the right word?).)
The only good reasons i’ve heard so far are “writing answers on the brim” and “obstructing the view of the student behind you.” If a student is constantly looking up at the brim of his hat, you’ve got to know something is up. Any half competent teacher should be able to tell what the student is doing. Forcing people to remove their hats from this reason seems really heavy handed to me. And if a person in front of you obstructs your view (which happens to me a lot, seeing as I’m only 5’5"), the reasonable solution is “move your ass.” Its not that hard. Even in a desk. If the hat is some unreasonable Uncle Sam hat, then yes, it is too big to see around. The extra 3 cm added by a baseball cap shouldn’t be much of a problem.
I’m a high school student, and I have to call Bee Fucking Ess on that one. Saying “because I said so” pretty much implies that we are sub human slaves required to follow any one of your whims. I’m normally a pretty good kid, I pay attention, do my work, make an A average, honor roll, etc. But if a teacher, or any adult for that matter, says “because I said so,” they INSTANTLY lose respect in my eyes. If you think I’m a brainless working machine that must act upon your directives, you are very much mistaken.
Now on topic, I agree with the general opinion that the rule is archaic and should be done away with. There is no reason to enforce the rule “because it’s there,” which happens so much in my school district. It’s about time teachers, and more importantly, administrators, became humans with common sense and rational decision making skills instead of mindless rule enforcers.
I think the real problem is not whether the rule is stupid but whether the students have the attitude that “you” can’t “make” them obey the rule. That attitude is pretty … you know. (pretty much why I don’t teach any more.)
Taking your hat off indoors is about simple good manners. Its respect for the mores of society which is why it should be enforced - not about whether or not hat wearers are “hurting” or “negatively impacting” someone else. If I see a hat inside I am offended.
To all those that say wearing a hat indoors is “ok” would you refuse to wear a hat in a synagogue or mosque? How does NOT wearing a hat in this situation hurt anyone?
I also lose respect for people who throw their authority around needlessly. However, part of the purpose of high school is to get you prepared for the real world and there are a lot of shitheads out there who puff out their chests and invent rules just for the purpose of proving they can. Chances, are, you’ll work for one of them and you might not be in a situation where you can quit if you don’t like it.
Now is the time to develop your “sweet and submissive” face. That way, they’ll never suspect you’re the one who’s putting salt in their coffee. 
Have you been to America lately?
I think in any given indoor public establishment you will see all varieties of individuals wearing all varieties of noggin covers.
I remember learning that you especially don’t wear a hat while in a restaurant but have noticed that except for the most upscale eateries, this “rule” is now happily ignored by plenty.
My father-in-law who just celebrated his 70th birthday probably has his ball cap on 99% of his waking hours whether he is inside or out.
Of the countless ways to find offense in one’s actions, this strikes me as an odd choice.
When I was in high school, one of the rules was that the guys had to take their hats off during tests-apparently, some morons would try to get away with writing the answers on the underside of the brim.
And for some reason, the library had a “no hats” rule. But that was it.
Once my hair gets messed up, there’s no way short of a shampoo/conditioning to make it look presentable. So, sometimes, after a long day on the road, I’ll wear a baseball cap to an indoor function. I’ve been asked to remove my hat at someone’s house, and I complied, but I felt self-conscious to the point of embarrassement.
Seriously, this is one of the most fogey and bigoted things I’ve ever seen on this board.
As a HS teacher, I could NEVER let myself think something like that, because it’s tantamount to “hip hop kids are retards”.
No it’s not. I’ll take off my hat at the table, because THAT is simple good manners, but wearing a hat indoors was always common enough. If I offend you by wearing a hat… okay, I can live with that.
It depends, I would be under no compulsion to wear a hat because I am of neither faith, but I’d probably have a hat on anyway… so it wouldn’t come to that.
My high school recently started this policy, I think because of pressure from the county, since no sane person who knows TJ would actually think anything in this thread applies.
When I cut my own hair sophomore year, I wore a hooded sweatshirt with the hood on so as not to distract other students (I did a truly terrible job, but I wasn’t personally embarassed by it). It didn’t last past first period. When I shaved my head at the end of junior year, I wore a baseball cap-esque thing because I was cold, and by that point, teachers mostly didn’t care.
Unless, of course, you’re sitting at a lab desk, which are too heavy to move and are used by other people (disregarding the fact that they’re usually, if not always, bolted/nailed to the floor), or you’re using a combination desk/chair, which were invented by Satan and are very difficult to move without disturbing other students, or the classroom is crowded so there isn’t anywhere to move that doesn’t make something else worse, or the teacher minds students moving desks, or… The list goes on and on. Moving your desk to get around someone’s hat isn’t always a viable option.
That relates to the reason I’ve heard: that teachers don’t want students wearing hats in a testing situation because it makes it much harder to tell whether they’re keeping their eyes on their own paper.
Not at all! I think you are inexperienced in life. And I know that other people are tasked with looking after your safety and welfare; this will be true all of your life. So when one of them tells you to do something, you need to assume that there is a good reason. If that assumption is later proven false, you have every right to ask for redress. School boards, parents and administrators debate at great length over dress codes before finally coming up with something everyone can live with. All of those people share the burden of looking out for your welfare. Once a course of action is settled on, the last thing they need is more debate from you.
Your time to enter the debate will come, when you have children (and they will be fortunate to have you as a parent, I have no doubt.) And when the decisions are made after long and arduous debate, one of your children will ask you, “Why?” And I’m willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the first phrase that leaps to you lips will be, “Because I said so!” Deny it all you will; just remember when it happens that … well, I said so.