Weaving

[Henga]

@Broomstick

In the distant past rugs and tapestries were woven on huge, stationary, vertical looms that didn’t have full-width heddles

I should have thought of this. I have a vague sense that patterns can be woven into the warp without having to have the weft pass through the entire shed- almost like embroidering a design as the fabric is being woven. But heddles that don’t cover the entire width of the cloth is something I hadn’t thought of.

I give that the same credibility as saying women weren’t professional chefs because they weren’t strong enough to lift pots and pans.

Actually the occupation of chef, as opposed to a cook, originated with the French aristocracy. When the Revolution came French chefs fled to England and got jobs in hotels and English country houses. At the time chefs were all men, but I don’t know why, while cooks were just about all women. And even before the French Revolution, the kitchen staff in British palaces, castles and country estates were at least half men, but again I don’t why.

Weaving is a technology that was probably invented multiple times around the world. Are you interested primarily in the European history or the world history of it?

Mostly European, but a technology museum should at least address the worldwide origins of weaving.

[Henga]

@adhemar

Another interesting source would be Woven into the Earth as well as Barbers Prehistoric Weaving and the Archeological digs of London . For actual visuals Williamsburg VA, Plymouth Plantation in MA, Jamestown VA or any of the Shaker villages. Also of course the Victoria and Albert Museum. The textile museums in Washington DC and the new textile exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. Plus a whole lot more, I recently have gone to a Middle eastern textile exhibit in Nashville TN and a Japanese textile exhibit in Chicago that would all fall into the pre-1900’s.

I live in the backwater known as Florida. But I have seen a demonstration at Williamsburg on youtube. The weaver explained that she was using either wool or linen and had to tell people that before the cotton gin was developed very little cotton was used because it took like 4 days of hand labor to remove the seeds from enough cotton to make just a single tea towel.

Youtube videos for Ruth Goodman, Alex Langlands and Peter Ginn’s farming/archaeology programs are also good. I’ve seen some on youtube and they had a segment on weaving.

Is this a personal interest or is it for a dissertation or published paper?

My personal interest. I have a bachelor’s degree in biology, and I took 40 credit hours in history, but I’ve also studied history on my own for nearly 40 years now. I am thinking that my list of historic occupations with an explanation of the technology, tools and materials used by each occupation might make a good book.

[Broomstick]

@Henga

I should have thought of this. I have a vague sense that patterns can be woven into the warp without having to have the weft pass through the entire shed- almost like embroidering a design as the fabric is being woven. But heddles that don’t cover the entire width of the cloth is something I hadn’t thought of.

I have a degree in Fine Arts with a concentration in textiles, I’ve been doing “fiber arts” for 45 years now, and a weaver for more than 30, and I’m still discovering new techniques and methods. It’s a HUGE field of tech and knowledge.

There’s several tapestry techniques where you don’t throw the weft across the full warp, some of them use auxiliary heddles for patches, some don’t. You can also use picks and auxiliary heddles for secondary patterns on more traditional looms.

Oh, and just as an example of my own work - here’s a tartan cloth I wove a number of years ago at 36 threads to the inch (I normally go for 48/inch for tartan, but the person I wove it for wanted the lighter weight).

[misling]

You can certainly use a warp-weighted loom (like the Navajo) to weave complex patterns, but it’s very time consuming. All the complex bits are put in by hand.
To individually control each thread of a pattern takes a very complex loom, such as Jacquard. These were controlled thread-by-thread from the top (they actually had a boy or more than one up there pulling them) before computerized Jacquards were invented.
Intermediate to these, and capable of making things like twills and birdseye and summer-and-winter without hand manipulation, is a counterbalance loom with harnesses in a multiple of 4. Groups of 4 are normal to keep a balanced weave. Warning, a counterbalance loom with more than about 12-16 harnesses becomes very heavy to tread.
Here are plans for a 4-harness counterbalance loom:
https://actionweaver.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/plans-for-making-a-counter-balance-loom/, there are many more on the web if you use the search terms ‘counterbalance loom plans’. An equal but different loom of the same mechanical complexity (approx) is the countermarche. These are a bit more difficult to setup, but require less strength on the treadles when weaving.

[misling]

I should note that my 12-harness Macomber loom is about the size of a dining room table… so lack of space could be a problem. However there are table-top counterbalance looms. Size of the cloth is more limited, of course. Mine weaves nearly a full yard width (40", usually 36" after washing).

[Chronos]

Quoth Henga:

Long term. I couldn’t set up a loom and leave it in place indefinitely. What is the heddle for your rug loom made of? Is it a rigid heddle?

Mom’s loom (which is single-rug-sized and which she made from an old work table instead of an attic) has a heddle made from a couple of four-foot lengths of threaded steel rods with wooden slats spaced along them with nuts. The original one that was in her grandmother’s attic had an all-wood heddle, which one of her relatives is now using as a decorative wall-hanging. I’ll see if I can dig up any pictures.

[Henga]

@Broomstick

I have a degree in Fine Arts with a concentration in textiles, I’ve been doing “fiber arts” for 45 years now, and a weaver for more than 30, and I’m still discovering new techniques and methods. It’s a HUGE field of tech and knowledge.

I’m curious. You set up this big machine with lots of moving parts. You attach hundreds or thousands of pieces of string to it and then you use other string to make pictures. I can see why weaving would have been learned by apprenticeship and controlled by a craft guild because weavers wouldn’t want the public to know how they did their work. But, were weavers ever suspected of witchcraft, especially women weavers?

I wove a number of years ago at 36 threads to the inch (I normally go for 48/inch for tartan, but the person I wove it for wanted the lighter weight).

In the weaving class I took I noticed a pattern developing and learned that it resulted from the types of thread that was used for the warp and weft. They weren’t the same thickness so one had a bleed-through effect. The teacher said most first time weavers wouldn’t have picked up on this and she gave me a different weft to demonstrate. Are there any rules of thumb as to why one type of thread would be chosen rather than another, or would you have to learn what each would do by trial and error? How does the diameter of the thread used influence the finished cloth?

[Chronos]

Ah, here’s a picture. Each slat has a hole in it, and the warp alternates going through the holes and going between the slats.

[Henga]

@misling

Here are plans for a 4-harness counterbalance loom:

I’ve already seen it, and it will likely be what I eventually build. My house right now is a construction zone since I am putting in a new kitchen.

But, how sturdy would this loom be? I can’t have something bulky and heavy because I don’t have the space, but will I lose much if I make something with smaller lumber?

What’s the difference between a counter-balance, countermarche and jack loom? No two things on the net will tell me the same thing. Is there any reason to use one and not another?

I have arthritis bad in my knees so the less strength it takes to work a loom the better.

[Henga]

@Chronos

Mom’s loom (which is single-rug-sized and which she made from an old work table instead of an attic) has a heddle made from a couple of four-foot lengths of threaded steel rods with wooden slats spaced along them with nuts. The original one that was in her grandmother’s attic had an all-wood heddle, which one of her relatives is now using as a decorative wall-hanging. I’ll see if I can dig up any pictures.

I know that you can buy metal heddles, but I’d like to make as many of the components as I can myself just to say I could.

[Broomstick]

@Henga

I’m curious. You set up this big machine with lots of moving parts. You attach hundreds or thousands of pieces of string to it and then you use other string to make pictures. I can see why weaving would have been learned by apprenticeship and controlled by a craft guild because weavers wouldn’t want the public to know how they did their work. But, were weavers ever suspected of witchcraft, especially women weavers?

I think weaving was such a common activity, despite the complexity, that most everyone was familiar with it and wouldn’t see it as magical. There are some superstitions around it (the Navajo, for example, believed that if a woman ever wove a blanket perfectly her life would be ended, so authentic blankets always have at least one deliberate flaw), there’s the Greek myth of Arachnae, and another one involving Sif and over confident housewives for the Norse, but I don’t think there was the level of mystery to result in that sort of accusation.

In the weaving class I took I noticed a pattern developing and learned that it resulted from the types of thread that was used for the warp and weft. They weren’t the same thickness so one had a bleed-through effect. The teacher said most first time weavers wouldn’t have picked up on this and she gave me a different weft to demonstrate. Are there any rules of thumb as to why one type of thread would be chosen rather than another, or would you have to learn what each would do by trial and error? How does the diameter of the thread used influence the finished cloth?

Oh, there’s a whole bunch of stuff out there about the diameter of threads vs. the number of threads per inch to either achieve plainweave or various effects.

Generally, it’s important that the warp be strong and not very stretchy, you have more freedom with the weft. “Sticky” warps, like fuzzy wools, are better worked with counter-marche looms rather than single-heddle ones. You have warp-faced fabrics and weft faced ones in addition to plainweave. If you’re doing overshot you might want a loosely spun wool that will tend to “spread” over the base cloth.

Plenty of trial and error, but also a lot of info on what’s already been done before.

[Henga]

@Chronos

Ah, here’s a picture. Each slat has a hole in it, and the warp alternates going through the holes and going between the slats.

Did you buy slats with holes already in them, or did you put the holes in them yourself?

[Broomstick]

@Henga

But, how sturdy would this loom be? I can’t have something bulky and heavy because I don’t have the space, but will I lose much if I make something with smaller lumber?

The sturdiness of a loom depends in part what it is made out of - if you go to smaller lumber than I strongly, strongly suggest you use a dense hardwood (oak and maple have long been popular). The wood may cost more but in the long run it’s worth it. The wood also needs to be dried thoroughly so it won’t warp. Use quality fasteners. Mortise-and-tenon, dovetail, and biscuit techniques on the joints are also recommended. Your loom will be subjected to significant tension forces, it needs to be strong even on a small scale.

What’s the difference between a counter-balance, countermarche and jack loom? No two things on the net will tell me the same thing. Is there any reason to use one and not another?

A jack loom has the heddles raised by being pushed up from below, they are jacked up by the mechanism, just as you would jack up a car when changing a tire. Hence the term jack loom. The only threads that move or are acted up on are those attached to the heddles that move up on a peddle stroke.

One advantage to jack looms is they tend to be shorter - all the necessary mechanism is underneath so you don’t have to worry about how much vertical space they take up.

One downside to jack looms is that you need a rigid frame for the heddles, and most use metal heddles. This adds weight. This might be a problem if you have joint or leg issues. When weaving a 40 inch wide piece of cloth on my jack loom at more than 24 ends per inch it can become a work out for prolonged weaving sessions.

A counter-balance loom, without getting too technical, allows for adjustment in the height of the shed (space the shuttle passes through) and the use of counter-weights/pulleys, and other mechanisms to keep the warp aligned properly and under equal tension (on jack looms, the threads that go up are put under higher tension than those that remain still). All threads move with each pedal stroke. Dedicated rug looms are often counter-balance. Think of them as heavy-duty workhorses although you can do delicate and lightweight work on them.

A counter-marche loom means that it doesn’t just lift or drop the active heddles, ALL heddles move on every peddling. This actively pulls the upper and lower parts of the shed apart and is the favored loom for “sticky” warps and very closely set ones. When properly set up, and because they usually use string heddles, they tend to require less physical effort from the weaver.

The downside is that they’re a little tricker to set up (but not that much) and require substantial vertical space for all the required mechanism.

There’s not much difference between counter-balance and counter-marche looms for the beginner. Highly advanced folks can get into screaming matches over the minutiae, as often happens in craft work.

I have arthritis bad in my knees so the less strength it takes to work a loom the better.

Then you’re probably best off with a counter-marche loom using string heddles. Or a table-top loom although those are much more limited due to their smaller size.

@Henga

I know that you can buy metal heddles, but I’d like to make as many of the components as I can myself just to say I could.

The problem with making your own string heddles is the need for consistency. Can you make dozens or hundred that are identical? Quality control is important. If you need to learn to make your own heddles because sure to allow for the learning curve.

[Broomstick]

@Henga

Did you buy slats with holes already in them, or did you put the holes in them yourself?

You can do it either way.

One problem I’ve seen with do-it-yourself is that people seriously underestimate the required strength for the slats. If you purchase a pre-made rigid heddle you’ll get something strong enough to stand up to wants involved in weaving.

[Chronos]

She put them in herself, using a drill press. Nothing in that loom was ever intended for a loom until Mom got her hands on them.

[Henga]

@Broomstick

A jack loom has the heddles raised by being pushed up from below, they are jacked up by the mechanism, just as you would jack up a car when changing a tire. Hence the term jack loom. The only threads that move or are acted up on are those attached to the heddles that move up on a peddle stroke.

One advantage to jack looms is they tend to be shorter - all the necessary mechanism is underneath so you don’t have to worry about how much vertical space they take up.

One downside to jack looms is that you need a rigid frame for the heddles, and most use metal heddles. This adds weight. This might be a problem if you have joint or leg issues. When weaving a 40 inch wide piece of cloth on my jack loom at more than 24 ends per inch it can become a work out for prolonged weaving sessions.

A counter-balance loom, without getting too technical, allows for adjustment in the height of the shed (space the shuttle passes through) and the use of counter-weights/pulleys, and other mechanisms to keep the warp aligned properly and under equal tension (on jack looms, the threads that go up are put under higher tension than those that remain still). All threads move with each pedal stroke. Dedicated rug looms are often counter-balance. Think of them as heavy-duty workhorses although you can do delicate and lightweight work on them.

A counter-marche loom means that it doesn’t just lift or drop the active heddles, ALL heddles move on every peddling. This actively pulls the upper and lower parts of the shed apart and is the favored loom for “sticky” warps and very closely set ones. When properly set up, and because they usually use string heddles, they tend to require less physical effort from the weaver.

The downside is that they’re a little tricker to set up (but not that much) and require substantial vertical space for all the required mechanism.

Best explanation I’ve ever seen.

If you need to learn to make your own heddles because sure to allow for the learning curve.

My hands likely would never let me make them, but I would at least like to know how.

[Henga]

@Chronos

She put them in herself, using a drill press. Nothing in that loom was ever intended for a loom until Mom got her hands on them.

My mother is a diesel mechanic’s daughter and an incurable diyer. I know the feeling.

[Broomstick]

@Henga

My hands likely would never let me make them, but I would at least like to know how.

It’s also good to know because improvising a string heddle can solve problems. If I make a threading error during loom set up if I can correct it by making a extra string heddle on the frame in between the wire heddles to pick up a missed warp thread rather than re-threading thousands of threads on the loom I will.

[Henga]

@Broomstick

It’s also good to know because improvising a string heddle can solve problems. If I make a threading error during loom set up if I can correct it by making a extra string heddle on the frame in between the wire heddles to pick up a missed warp thread rather than re-threading thousands of threads on the loom I will.

I’d also like to simply experiment with the loom mechanisms and maybe come to understand why things are done the way they are- simply tradition or for technical reasons. Without having built a loom and my only project so far being the coaster I made in my weaving class, I’m wondering if ways could be found to made warping the loom go faster.

[Chronos]

On any sort of loom, warping is always the most tedious part.