Weekly Comic Book Discussion 4/28/2005

New Avengers: I still like it too. No, it’s not like previous Avengers space-faring adventures, but then again, I don’t like cosmic stories, so this suits me just fine. Fenris, Spider-man obtained organic web-shooters in the Craptacular…I mean Spectacular Spider-Man when he was turned into a giant spider and then burst out of himself (yeah I know) all new and all different [read: organic web-shooters.] Jenkins needs to keep his mitts off my Spidey and stick to Inhumans and Sentry (both of which I loved.)

Ultimate Secret: I like this one better than Nightmare. So the Kree just like to watch civilizations get destroyed by the big G. I wonder if Gah Lak Tus is gonna be some kind of Lovecraftian critter.

Squadron Supreme: haven’t read past the first few pages but the pacing is so slow. As has been the rest of the series. Pick it up a bit JMS! This coming from a reader who likes Bendis.

Rising Stars vol 3 TPB: Finally the conclusion of Rising Stars. Can’t wait to get started on that one.

The rest :

Lullaby #2 - Liking this little slightly twisted fairy tale book from Image. Pinocchio’s character particularly.

Sleeper #11 - Actually, I think this issue was more interesting than some of the recent others. Nice to see Grifter back in form.

Supreme Power #16 - I think it’s a good transitional issue until the next arc.

Authority : Revolution #7 - Nothing special to say. The concept of the Garden of Jenny’s is a neat one.

Phil Jimenez’s Other World #2 - The visuals of this book are really muddled. I find it’s difficult to figure out what’s going on in a panel. I’ll give it another issue to clear things up…

I think Zatanna is being held in reserve for a fight involving Batman and the JLA over that whole mind-wipe thing. She might make an appearance, but the Enchantress has the leggy sorceress slot nicely filled in this book. :wink:

Between the IC fallout and 7S, Zatanna’s getting more exposure in the DCU than she has in decades, at least since she was last in the JLA. It’d just be greedy to ask for more.

As for Spectre, well, I disagree that he seems a huge threat yet. We just haven’t seen enough carnage. He’s the God of the Old Testament, he should seem much more Awesome than he is now. Maybe it’ll improve. In fact, I suspect it will, they just didn’t want to blow it all on the first issue. But the magical community should be pissing themselves a but more, there should be more panic, more confusion. They’re apparently on God’s hitlist. And these guys know best just what that means.

As for the unequal treatment, he’s the wrath of God. Terrible and ineffible. The fact that his judgements seem arbitrary and uneven isn’t a flaw, it’s a character trait.

The Spectre is not the God of the Old Testament. He was a semi-fallen angel charged with the duty of being the manifestation of the wrath of God - and the distinction’s pretty important, because I very much doubt this is the will of the DCU’s version of God - the Presence. Why? Well, the Presence is historically pretty darn inactive, for one. Second, The previews indicate the Spectre will be working with

Eclipso (who happens to be the Spectre’s predecessor as the angel of wrath)

and that just doesn’t add up to divine judgment. I think the Spectre’s been corrupted or gone insane.

And now, a joke that GL : Rebirth has moved into obsolescence.

“Hey, don’t you think the new Spectre looks a lot like Hal Jordan?”

“Yep, he’s a dead ringer.”

Finally made it to the LCS this weekend after missing last week.

7S – Klarion #1 – Wow, awesome. So moody, so beautiful, so creepy. I would really not like to live in that town. Champing at the bit to get the next chapter.

Ex Machina #10 – Holy cow, I did not see that coming! I am really worried about what Mitch faces in the future after this. And the dialogue is great – makes the sacrifice at the climax seem real. I want the next issue nownownow!!!

Runaways #3 – Now that’s more like it! The first two issues of this book didn’t really grab me as the first run did. But issue three finally feels like the old Runaways. All the dialogue and relationships are great. I’d be happy not to see any more of Excelsior for a while, and the way the group deals with Victor in the immediate future is really where the meat will lie, I think. but anyone who picked up the first issue or two and decided it wasn’t for you, I urge you to give #3 a try – this is more like what Runaways used to be and I expect what it will be like from here out.

OMAC #1 – This was OK. It was all plot and not terribly exciting, but it sets up an interesting conflict within Checkmate which with luck will bear fruit later. Fingers crossed.

Manhunter #9 – This is more like it – finally we’re begun to leave the trial behind, and if we’re lucky we won’t see the inside of a courtroom again for a while. Creepy developments with Kate’s son, who has already suffered more than a little for his mother’s new avocation. Seriously threatening last page. Great issue.

Day of Vengeance #1 – This I liked better than OMAC, surprisingly. Also lots of set up, but more character and humor than the other book and more interesting to look at as well. Plus, Detective Chimp. Cool.

Hellblazer: Original Sins – I picked this up a coule weeks ago and just finished it this weekend. It was really good. Very definitely of the late '80’s mold we saw in early Sandman and what I’ve read of Veitch’s Swamp Thing back when Vertigo was not much more than a gleam in Karen Berger’s eye. But the portrait of a man being torn apart by his own inner demons but refusing to back down is really well drawn. I wish the rest of Delano’s run were readily available.

–Cliffy

Actually, I’m pretty sure that we’re both right.

The spectre has three parts:

  1. The Wrath of God, which can’t operate on Earth alone since the Love of God became incarnate (that’d be Jebus)

  2. A repentant fallen angel, stripped of all its personality and individuality to be the vessel of said Wrath.

  3. A dead and willing human host.

My source is the tail-end of Ostrander’s Spectre run, were Jim makes some revelations into the natures of the Spectre and God, leading eventually to his retirement and ascension.

I like this version since it neatly explains why the OT and NT versions of God seem so different. It’s a continuity-patching retcon, for the Bible!

I admit that this version of the Spectre breaks several of the rules set up or implied by the Corrigan days. For example, He seems to be doing just fine without a human soul as host. That was a no-no under Ostrander. So, maybe they’re going with “just an angel” here, but I’ve always liked the Spectre to be as epic as possible, and it just doesn’t get more epic than “part of God Himself”!

When they say the Spectre’s the manifestation of the Wrath of God - they don’t mean the angels all went to a God buffet, sliced the old bean up, and each took a piece, though. I didn’t read most of Ostrander’s run, just bits and pieces, but the will of the Spectre is in no way equivalent to the will of God, and is sometimes distinct from even a subset thereof.

But he is not the God of the Old Testament, and the Spectre’s hitlist != God’s hitlist. On that point, I must firmly disagree.

Nope,they made the point quite clear in Ostranger’s day. The Spectre is partially God. Since he’s forced to operate through a mortal intermediary, however, his power level and nature can be quite erratic, but it is, potentially, infinite. And now that he’s sans host, the Spectre should be nothing but divine will.

Oh, I missed one!

Simpsons Comics #105 – Worth purchasing for Comic Book Guy’s description of the plot to “Archie Disassembled” alone, this was a fine example of a consistently entertaining comic. Dr. Nick chats about several of his most successful cases. Successful is apparently a relative term.

–Cliffy

Then Ostrander’s work is at complete odds with DC continuity. And raises some interesting conflicts within itself; when the Spectre was banished from the mortal plane while the Love of God walked the Earth, I seem to recall it was the Archangel Michael who came to deliver the eviction notice. IF the Spectre was a part of God, any more so than any other angel-with-a-duty, why the need for the intermediary?

No, while the Spectre has some special powers and duties granted by the Presence, his will is clearly distinct from God’s.

Given that Ostrander’s work on Spectre is pretty much the definitive version, I’d say it’s the other way around.

Definitive? Pretty subjective label. Some might consider Byrne’s Superman work definitive - others disagree.

No, I’ve been reviewing summaries of books from the period, including Ostrander’s Spectre books, and it’s clear that the Spectre is an entity with a mind completely independent from that of the Presence. The Spectre was bound to a mortal because it was without conscience and was acting contrary to God’s will, overdoing the whole Wrath thing. It is a construct, created by the Presence, to replace Eclipso as Angel of Wrath.

Also, By the arguments presented above, Eclipso is “part of God” and just as much “the God of the Old Testament” as the Spectre. And personally, I wouldn’t label Eclipso’s murder sprees as divine judgment.

Candid, when you start arguing about comic books, you scare me. A lot.

snicker Why? Too** intense**? :wink: