Well… from a purely objective standpoint, this week’s Firestorm was tolerable. He used his powers cleverly. My chief objection is that a long-standing and well-liked (if not popular) DCU character was killed and, in fact, was replaced before his death was even depicted … by some new, random, chump. The fact that the art and dialogue of the book is mediocre and inoffensive doesn’t prod me to like it any better.
As for **Return of Continuity Screw-Up ** - I hate Donna Troy. Always have. The writing in this mini is, to my mind, sappy and cheesy. They use Jeph Loeb’s thought balloon gag without any of Jeph’s deftness. The reunion would be more touching if A.) I cared about Donna in the first place, and B.) it wasn’t already practically a Titans annual tradition. Every year in the DCU, three things happen : the JSA and JLA team up, Donna comes back from the dead, and one of the major A-listers learns the true meaning of Christmas.
Not for too much longer, apparently. Word is that the title has been cancelled as of issue #18. I do wish that, instead of cancelling it entirely, DC would hand it over to a new creative team–one that could give it back at least a little edge. I quite liked the Arcudi/Tan version. (And I bet it irks Byrne royally that his series isn’t even lasting as long as that one did.)
I don’t think it matters whether or not the attack cuts him. The issue is that magical attacks can obviate Superman’s personal invulnerability. It’s not “sharp magical attacks only”. Smash and crush is as effective as cut and slash you know. A magical warhammer would obviate Superman’s personal shield and do tremendous damage to him if it didn’t kill him outright.
It’s never worked like that. It’s always been “magic weapons (or strength) are significantly more effective against Superman than purely scientific ones, but Superman still retains significant defenses against them.”
I hate this. It satisfies neither your “A magical warhammer would obviate Superman’s personal shield and do tremendous damage to him if it didn’t kill him outright” position nor my “physical damage is physical damage, and it doesn’t matter to Superman if it originated from Mjolnir or an atom bomb” stance.
Your position is logically sound, I admit. I like my postion more because I don’t like the idea of Superman being creamed by anyone who manages to find a +1 knife.
It does matter. Look - Superman has a “force field” that magical objects ignore. Superman also has an extraordinarily dense bone and muscle structure that makes him far more resistant to blunt-trauma than most folks, even if it is magical blunt trauma.
Think of Kevlar. Cuts pretty easy with a sharp knife, stops bullets. Smash and Crush not nearly so effective as cut and slash. In fact, Wonder Woman’s powers have been said to work this way at one point - large blunt forces she can resist well, but she isn’t bulletproof, thus the bracelets.
His powers have not been explained that way. With all due respect, that is just your interpretation of them. Dracula managed to pierce his skin and he was also cut by a tiara recently and even a sword in Kingdom Come. We’ve only really seen sharp magical objects rather than blunt magical objects used against him.
The form of the attack only matters in dertermining whether it is magical or not. Whether it is blunt or sharp is not relevant. Indeed, in the Avengers/JLA crossover the writer went to great pains to state that Mjolnir was Not a magical attack because if it were it would end the fight in about one hit (Dan Jurgens who wrote both Thor and Superman noted that Mjolnir would one-shot Supreman). I don’t Thor would one shot him but without that forcefield then Mjolnir should at least break somethime of Supermans and possibly put him out of the fight.
The Wonder Woman bulletproof thing was an effort to somehow retcon those awful stories from the 70’s where she was taken out by a bullet before. The woman just survived reentry into earth’s atmosphere and a full punch from Superman. Bullets, not matter how “cutting” aren’t going to hurt her. Sometimes you just have to put things down to poor writing.
No, they’ve studiously avoided most post-Byrne attempts to explain his powers at all. Thus, we must construe according to the evidence. Magical energy blasts and magical beings and magical blunt weapons don’t treat Superman as a normal human being. Ergo, he has some additional defense. However, magical sharps seems to work just fine - thus, that extra defense must function a lot like Kevlar. The dense body structure is the simplest, cleanest explanation, and is entirely consistent with the Byrne breakdown of his abilities.
Posting while drunk, are you?
The Avengers/JLA crossover makes no such mention in its text, are you referring to supplemental material? Dan Jurgens, to put it bluntly, is apparently dead wrong - the only official evidence we have directly contradicts him.
I think you’re mistaken, since the not-quite-bulletproof idea is, if I recall correctly, a post-Crisis artifact - which wouldn’t have needed to deal with any 70’s stories, since the Crisis erased all of Wonder Woman’s adventures up to that point.
And as for poor writing - sometimes, sure. A writer who has a bullet bounce off Wonder Woman’s skin, when she was shot and badly wounded a few issues before, had better have some hidden explanation in mind. However, it is not at all unusual for a comic book character (or a real-life material) to have different resistances to different kinds of attack.
As a footnote, Diana’s tiara is specifically enchanted as a magical weapon.
Is there any indication in Thor mythos that Uru is MAGICALLY hard or strong? Yes, it’s enchanted, but its enchantments are only that:
a) Only a worthy person can lift it (but this doesn’t mean it’s super-heavy or super-massive, because increased strength doesn’t make it any more liftable)
b) It can change Thor to human and back, when applicable to the character
c) It can summon and banish stormy weather effects
d) It can open dimensional portals
e) It will return to Thor’s hand when he summons it
So it’s quite possible that Mjolnir’s blunt attack is merely the natural property of the substance Uru, despite how much magic the hammer holds. Whereas the magical blades Superman has been cut with have been enchanted that their edges should be magically sharp, so the act of cutting is itself magical, and can harm Superman.
Well, does Wonder Woman’s tiara have any enchantments on it that make it magically sharp? I don’t believe so.
Mjolnir also has many other enchantments that were not part of the original package:
Shoot mystical blasts.
Stop Time
Paralyze oppenents with mystical rays.
magnetism
drain radiation, magic and energy
anti-force blasts.
absorb and redirect energy
nullifying vortex
using the hammer to trace magical and cosmic energy
using the hammer to analyze an opponents weakness
anti-gravitational field
anti-matter field.
The hammer was created to be the greatest weapon for a warrior god. It was created by magical creatures out of a magical metal to be a weapon. Personally, I think it’s pretty clearly a magical weapon.
Oh, please. You didn’t think accusing someone of being drunk while posting was a personal insult? Pfiddle. (Sometimes it’s better just to apologize, rather than offer explanations.)
Well, I wouldn’t say it is superior to Mjolnir as Mjolnir made Superman bleed as well. Re-read Avengers/JLA and go from there.
The fact, however, that it is a magical weapon (like Mjolnir) and that it managed to hurt Superman (because it is a magical weapon) destroys the notion that a magical weapon has to have some sort of additional “does more damage magically” spell. They don’t. Mjolnir is equally as magical as WW’s tiara if not more so (Thor is equal to the pantheon that gave WW her powers and her weapons) so we know it’s going to get through Superman’s shields. If that’s the case, then Supeman isn’t catching anything.
Since we have a few every week that admit to doing just that, no, I didn’t. It was flippant shorthand for “That post has numerous errors in grammar, spelling, and overall coherence.”
Still waiting for you to attribute the “writer even said so” bit from earlier. Once you do, I may check it out again.
Fallacious assumption. Superman has been damaged by non-magical sources on numerous occasions, and was, in fact, more or less killed by a big, strong nonmagical fellow by the name of Doomsday.
Pure speculation. The equivalencies of the two pantheons are also entirely speculative. Based on no evidence.
Superman might well have caught the tiara, too, if he hadn’t been surprised. He is a swift fellow, after all. The fact remains that our single, solitary shred of evidence says that Superman can, in fact, catch Mjolnir when swung in earnest by the God of Thunder.
Shrug, personally I think it goes to your overall personality when someone disagrees with you (at least on these boards). Regardless, I don’t really want to get into an argument with you about this. Why don’t we just agree to leave all personal comments and/or asides out of any future postings between us? That way we can just argue on the merits and go from there.
The writer of the crossover, Kurt Busiek, has been on numerous boards discussing his position. His point of view was that because Mjolnir didn’t have a spell on it to “hit harder” it would not constitute a magical attack. You’re right that it wasn’t discussed in the crossover itself but it was a response to people saying “hey, why didn’t the hammer cream Superman”.
And he was badly hurt by Thor as well. Consider this though, how much more damage would Thor have inflicted on Superman if Superman’s personal invulnerability shield was not in play. He would not have been catching the hammer that’s for sure!
Pretty much everything we are doing here is speculation. Thor is an actual god in the Marvel Universe were as Wonder Woman is a servent/worshiper/ally of gods in the DCU. From everything I have read on the DCU’s Asgardian and Greek pantheon’s the MU’s Asgardians are there equals if not their superiors (Odin destroying galaxies and all that). Moreover, Mjolnir is one of mythologies most famous weapons so I don’t think it is unreasonable to give it some respect.
I’m sure he could have caught it but it probably would have cut his hand. The recent display suggests that Mjolnir (as a magical attack) would have broken said hand.
