I’ve been the young girl who received a lot of attention from older guys. And I’ve talked to enough other women to know that this behavior is almost always unwanted.
I’ve always looked pretty young for my age, except when I was a young teen. I now have quite a lot of grey hair, and I finally look like I’m middle aged. One of the most welcome things about looking middle aged is that I DON’T get the guys touching me and rubbing against me and making sexual comments. Don’t assume that women enjoy these actions, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY COME FROM MEN WHO ARE TWICE THEIR AGE. This guy is a creep. Maybe he doesn’t intend to be, but his behavior is that of a creep.
Now, if my husband is the one who’s touching me and making comments in an appropriate setting, that’s one thing. If I had a boyfriend who did this stuff, same thing. But whether the touches are sexual or not, it’s inappropriate to touch strangers. Why is this even an issue? Why do people think it’s OK to touch strangers, other than a handshake or something like that?
Maybe it’s that we think it’s not up to YOU to determine what amount of touching is appropriate between other people. If you were involved in some way or there are little kids involved then you have something.
If you really want to play momma bear though and can’t keep to yourself then the next time you see him bump one of the girls go ask them how THEY feel about it and if it bothers them give them advice on how THEY should handle it. In no world is this something YOU should get involved in. (Again these are generic yous as Weedy already bowed out of this)
With all due respect, you just made that up. Nowhere did the OP say this guys was “rubbing against” young girls and “making sexual comments”. You’ve added your own invented behaviour to what was described, then proclaimed another human being as being a creep.
There are two facets to what the OP reported:
[ul][li]bumping shoulders with people walking past him[/li][li]chatting to people as they walked up to the machines.[/li][/ul]
Nothing else. Anything else is invented. You’ll also note that he did this to people of both genders.
The former - yep, that sounds weird. I’m having a hard time imagining it. It sounds aggressive and threatening to me (in a violent, but not sexual way) - what people trying to pick a fight do. Given that the OP reports him as “friendly and not threatening” I’d prefer clarification on that before making a judgement.
The latter - god, I wish we had more of that in the world. These days it seems everybody is afraid to speak to each other. People SHOULD feel that they can chat to people in the gym, the park, the pub, the queue, the bus stop, whatever social environment they’re in, without being viewed as weird. It’s a problem that they can’t. Modern society has lost something important there, I feel. Being friendly is not a crime.
So we need clarification on the “bumping shoulders, yet friendly and not threatening” things which currently makes no sense. I can see it with people (men) one knows and has a boisterous/competitive yet friendly relationship with, but not with women.
But inventing additional behaviour and proclaiming him as a creep doesn’t sound fair to me. No wonder or society is so damn unfriendly.
I was responding to** handsomeharry’s **guess that she is jealous of the touchees. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. Some men think that all women live for male attention, and are flattered by any male attention, and I wanted to address that issue. I’ve been the target of such attention, and no, I didn’t like it.
And yes, I think that the guy in the OP is actually a creep.
I don’t think anyone sees anything terribly wrong with what the guy did. I was responding entirely to the OP’s spidey sense tingling. I know that feeling.
If I had that feeling, I would speak up. I wouldn’t accuse, just make someone in management aware that something about this persons actions set my spidey sense a tingling.
You do know that’s exactly how they found Jaycee, right? Some woman’s spidey sense started tingling. No one did anything wrong or actionable, just set off someone’s spidey sense. Thank God they didn’t MYOB! Abused/missing/abducted children are quite often located in just this way.
No one wants the guy hung, or even accused of anything. They just want to share their unease with someone else, who’s in a position to watch. Keep an eye open, etc.
If it was my gym, I’d want someone to say something to me. I might not believe you, but I would watch.
Oh, bullshit. This isn’t something Lynn or the OP made up. Touching strangers is not the norm in American Society, in general. Whatever this guy’s motives, he’s the one acting oddly. It’s perfectly reasonable to wonder if he’s just socially hopeless or if he’s got a bigger problem - because it’s his behavior that is transgressing social norms.
Getting the management to tell him to stop touching people is precisely the right thing to do.
Hell, none of the posters in this thread would put up with a grabby, chatty kindergartner running around the gym, bumping into people.
Thing is, I have a friend who is a genuinely friendly guy. He’ll talk to anyone about anything. Doesn’t matter whether they’re young, old, male, female - he sees something interesting to talk about in everyone. Frankly, I’m a little jealous of him - his ability to strike up a conversation anywhere in an affable manner is nothing short of a superpower. You leave him alone for a minute, when you get back he’ll be deep in conversation with a random stranger.
But he’d be utterly destroyed to hear that people had been running to staff to say they thought he was a creep. Because he’s not; he’s really not. He’s affable.
He’s what our society needs more of, not less.
Now, I’m not saying he’s the same as this guy - I’ve not seen this guy. And the “bumping shoulders” just sounds so odd that I feel there must be more detail we’re not aware of.
But striking up conversations with people in a shared environment? If that’s a crime, then shoot me now. Because I wish I could do that, and hell I would do it if I could. Without hesitation.
I dunno. Once you let the idea of him being a “creep” out to anyone, it’s stuck. That’s his reputation. That’s a pretty fucking harsh thing to do to someone. There’s no recovering from that; and don’t tell me “the staff member will keep it in confidence” because people aren’t guaranteed to be like that. They repeat it to one person, that person repeats it to two more, and suddenly this guy is the local pedophile.
I’d like clarification on the “bumping shoulders” thing, frankly. The chatting to people thing is a + in my book, not a -. The bumping shoulders thing doesn’t seem to make sense - is he bullrushing 12 year old girls, or is he engaging in male-bonding with his macho peers? More information is needed before proclamations are made and pitchforks lit.
Again, I was not addressing what he did or didn’t do. I wasn’t there and didn’t see, neither were you.
I was only speaking to the spidey sense tingling. Does your friend only get chatty with young girls? No? Then it’s unlikely to set off anyone’s spidey sense.
I’m sure we’d all be destroyed to hear what people have said about us, who don’t know us. ‘Affable’, and ‘genuinely friendly’, never set off a spidey sense, your friend has nothing to worry about.
Let me ask you this. You and your young daughter are at a function. You’re at ease and have no reason to suspect anything. Someone else in the crowd has been watching her interact with a young teenage boy. He hasn’t done anything, actionable or overt. But this woman has a sense something isn’t right, her spidey sense is sending signals.
Which sentences would you rather hear come out of her mouth;
“I know I could be all wrong, and I hate to say it, please take this with a grain of salt, but I’d feel much better if you’d keep your eye on that teenage boy playing with your daughter, just between us, and based on not much more than my own spidey sense. Just felt I had to say something!”
or;
“I knew it! I could tell something wasn’t right, I could just feel it. Of course, I didn’t want to say anything because he wasn’t actually doing any one thing I could identify as actionable! I just wish I’d said something before this happened!”
I don’t actually have any spidey-sense, BTW. I have zero ‘instinct’ about people. I noticed this guy because he was talking to people, which no one in my gym does, and he was nearby. I may be an interfering busybody, but I’m not claiming any special knowledge.
(I rearranged this quote a bit)
I don’t know what I can clarify. You seem to have an accurate picture of the shoulder bumping. Yes, it was weird.
He started talking to a girl as she walked up to the machine next to mine. She replied to him, then he followed her over to the machine, and continued talking to her as she began her workout. She got off the machine and moved to one down the far end of the row. He went back to his weights. It didn’t look to me like the kind of social interaction that makes the world a nicer place for everyone, but it’s true I’m not some kind of ultimate judge.
Honest question: is he able to read people well enough to figure out when to not strike up conversations, or to leave people alone if they don’t want to talk?
I’m sorry to hear your friend would have his feelings hurt if people were bothered by his behaviour, but I do think people’s right to feel safe in public spaces, and non-threatened at the gym they’re paying to go to, is more important than guys’ God-given right to start conversations with strange women.
Nailed it.
I’m sure there must be a way to help women be more comfortable around strange men, and to lower instances of both the situations Slithy Tove describes. I’m not sure “stop overreacting, you hysterical women, who made you queen of the universe and also you’re probably just jealous of the attention” isn’t it, though.
So, there’s something weird about talking to people? Leave it alone. In my humble opinion, he didn’t do anything wrong here.
Questions for you to consider:
[ul]
[li]How would you react if someone reported you for talking to patrons?[/li]
[li]Is it against the gym rules for patrons to talk to other patrons? [/li]
[li]How is this behavior considered creepy?[/li][/ul]
Yes, talking to people is pretty harmless. We’re on the same page here, which is why I wouldn’t report it.
Sorry, Toots, but we’re not going to cater to the lowest neurasthenic denominator. Catladies are always very conscious of the many potential grievances imperiling them at any given moment, and I’m afraid society just couldn’t function if the rest of us have to tiptoe around those eggshells.
I saw the title of this thread and knew instantly that its path was set.
1.) OP(usually a woman) describes some social situation involving older men(or men in general) and women(usually young).
2.) OP is vague as humanly possible.
3.) 1 or more of the same bunch of Spiderwomen(experts at interpreting the so-called “spidey sense”) come in and steer the conversation into some really dark places, often somehow involving Gavin de Becker and/or rape and sexual assault.
3a-optional.) Freudian Slit comes in and(usually) states her opinion in the form of a question i.e. “Aw shucks, does this really happen to you? Maybe I’m just weird but it doesn’t happen to me…”
3b-optional.) **Cat fight ** comes in and manages to make the thread even more about the inequities of being a woman in today’s society.
4.) The word “creepy”, or any variant thereof, must be written no less than 10 times.
5.) The same–or similar–group of male Dopers go “Huh? Wha…?”
6.) The same–or similar–group of female Dopers go “This! and That! Don’t you see?!” replete with personal anecdotes that may or may not have anything to do with the OP.
7.) OP finally remembers that they opened one of those thread thingys on them there internets, and finally graces us with their presence.
8.) They then proceed to actually elaborate on the scenario in the OP. This will oftentimes change the interpretation completely, usually making it so obviously creepy/weird that it makes the original query laughable.
9.) OR, it adds almost nothing to the thread and list numbers 5 and 6 are repeated ad infinitum.
10.) I have way too much time on my hands lately.
Can’t we all just get along? I know it’s just a dumb ol’ message board but…well…
That’s a false dichotomy, though. You’re presenting those as if they are the only two options possible.
Like I said, I wasn’t there so I don’t know what this looked like. Actually I have less of an issue with the OP who was simply admitting she felt uneasy that I do those who have condemned the man as a creep with access to the little information we have here. As for “spidey sense”, there are a million reasons why people have that feeling, many of which can make them the creep (crossing the street at the sight of a black man, for example - not that I’m saying this is the case here).
But the OP indicated this guy got chatty with both genders and all ages, not only young girls.
She’s admittedly later clarified with what does appear to be obnoxious behaviour, but that sure as hell wasn’t in her OP. Her initial description was: "I saw him talk both to other guys his age (30+), and to girls about 15-20. He was friendly rather than threatening". She later* revised* that to following young girls from gym station to gym station. The two descriptions sound almost like two entirely different events to me.
I’s still like Weedy to describe this shoulder bumping thing. The only shoulder bump that I know of come in two varieties:
Aggressive: Bumper lowers his or her shoulder and deliberately knocks into the shoulder of the bumpee. Usually seen when males are asserting their dominance, and performed while walking toward one another. Usually quite forceful, and never friendly.
Friendly: A quick bump of shoulders between males. usually seen at sporting type endeavors where they don’t want to get sweat on one another. Kind of a “Hey great job bro!” type thing. This can also be performed in conjunction with a handshake in lieu of a hug.
If this was something else I’ve never seen it. Describe please?
As for following a couple of girls around, so what? Guys do that all the time at the gym. It isn’t the best place to try to make friends or pick up dates, but it certainly isn’t creepy either. Since he was talking to all sorts of people he probably is just trying to meet new people. The OP mentioned that when the young lady he was talking to moved away from him, he went back to his weights. What’s the problem?
She’s now clarified that it was the former - aggressive - rather than the friendly/not-threatening version we were originally presented with.
She’s also now clarified that rather than being friendly to people of all ages and both genders, he was specifically following young girls around.
Given the new version of events, I’d agree with her that something sounds off. The story seems to have changed, unfortunately, so it’s hard to tell. But given the current version of events - yeah, he sounds like someone to be wary of.
To sum up my opinion on the gym behavior described so far in this thread:
Striking up a conversation: Not creepy.
Striking up conversations only with girls: Would make me roll my eyes, but still not creepy.
Following girls around: Creepy.
Shoulder-bumping anyone: Creepy and also really weird.
