Well, I guess the Judge knows best.

[The_King_of_Soup]

I think the judge was perfectly correct. Duffer has nonetheless hit bull’s-eyes on two troublesome points. The first is the issue of compelled speech. Is there anything in the religious role playing that, * even absent a profession of belief*, offends the religious requirements of a student (a ban on kneeling, say, or the mere utterance of certain words or phrases)? Such was not alleged in this case, but it would have been interesting if it had been. I’m not concerned with the essay and the “be positive” instruction. Students participate in lots of exercises that require them to defend arguments they may not personally believe to be true.

The second is the potential for abuse. I would wager that there are enough school prayer advocates who will read about this decision and think “Aha! I* can * make my students recite the Lord’s Prayer every day, I just have to label it a role-playing exercise!” to keep the courts busy for a long time, and every decision will have to be very delicately worded lest it cause still more confusion.

[iampunha]

@duffer

The problems I have deal with the fact the teacher not only had the kids “mock pray” but to say that there is only one true God, and He is Allah.

But as long as she says it, it must be so. Right?

duffer, in case you missed it, IMO (and Guin seems to agree with me, so there’s at least two of us crazies saying this:D) they weren’t being sincere in what they were saying. They were pretending; acting a part for a class exercise. I’m not sure what approach you’re using whereby this, had you been in on it, would have been tantamount to you saying there’s another God. Beside that, too, I don’t think it would be a Mortal Sin; full consent of will and serious reflection would be more than slightly lacking (2 of 3 requirements for classification of something as a Mortal Sin; the third is Grave Matter, and I’m not sure that “pretending to be Muslim for a class assignment” falls in that bin either).

[duffer]

@Revtim

I admit I’m not clear at all what you are asking here. Are you speculating those four reasons as why I feel the way I do, and asking me if any are correct? None of them are. I make a sharp distinction between reciting words as a learning exercise, and reciting words as a pledge or prayer. The class with the Muslim material sounds like they are reciting the words simply as students would recite any material, no different from reciting any other material, and is clearly not a prayer. They can recite any religious words they want, including Christian, for all I care, as long as it is in the context of simply learning about the religion, and not an endorsement of it or pledge to it.

I hope I answered your question; if not, perhaps you can re-word it.

Don’t worry about not being clear on what I meant. I was pretty well into my cups at that point.

To everyone, I’ve gotten it off my chest. I’ve had time to decompress and feel a bit better know. (except for this damn hangover )

Keep the thread alive if you want, I’ll check in time to time if it gets bumped. And thanks to all for your opinions on this. Oh, and for not tearing me a new one. I seem to be getting better at this message board thing.

[Typo_Negative]

@The King of Soup

The second is the potential for abuse. I would wager that there are enough school prayer advocates who will read about this decision and think “Aha! I* can * make my students recite the Lord’s Prayer every day, I just have to label it a role-playing exercise!” to keep the courts busy for a long time, and every decision will have to be very delicately worded lest it cause still more confusion.

Well, not every day, but I think you are absolutely right about this. I’d wager that it won’t be long till we see this happen.

Something about this smells fishy to me as it is.