We're gonna bomb you back to the stone age.

The BBQ Pit
1

Turns out some of the “coalition of the willing” were not really all that willing. Wiht that said, there were probably just as many reasons to invade Pakistan as there were to invade Iraq.

There is not a single country in the world outside of the US that ever had majority support for invading Iraq. Now we find out that some of the ones who did go along with us did so with a gun at their heads (And frankly Poland, Kuwait and Korea are only there because we saved their bacon and they will basically be forever grateful).

2

Well, how about that?

3

Pssssst: Pakistan didn’t go into Iraq with us. They were never part of the CotW. You made the same mistake the guy in GD did with his OP.

4

Yes, it’s all OK. They were not part of the collation. You can all go back to bed.

They were called a great ally in the fight in Afghanistan however. I now wonder how strong an ally in reality. Since it now seems that support was given under duress.

My biggest question however is what’s happened to make ‘The General’ :wink: say this now. What has happened to the relationship that he needs to say this now? Obviously he’s under a good bit of pressure at home.

5

Yeah, the remark about “join us or get bombed” was allegedly about getting Pakistan to join us in the initial efforts to topple the Taliban.

Remember? Back when Bush had the “support” of the world do “what was obviously necessary” until it turned out that it involved actually doing something, at which point nations started bailing out and pulling back and saying that while 9/11 was horrible, it was no reason to go to the extremes of war with the Taliban, etc…

But, of course, we’ve forgotten all of that to hide behind the meme that “Bush squandered all of our wonderful, huge, incredible outpouring of support of 9/11 on this damned Iraq war”, because it’s easier to make a devil than it is to admit that other countries really just don’t give a shit about our suffering, and at times even revel in it.

6

[QUOTE=John Corrado]

But, of course, we’ve forgotten all of that to hide behind the meme that “Bush squandered all of our wonderful, huge, incredible outpouring of support of 9/11 on this damned Iraq war”, because it’s easier to make a devil than it is to admit that other countries really just don’t give a shit about our suffering, and at times even revel in it.
[/QUOTE]

Or some maybe had concerns about themselves remaining in power. Pakistan isn’t exactly Europe. I have heard many times US citizens saying that their country’s interests outweight all other concerns. Can we not expect other countries to act the same?

The vast majority of the world had sympathy for the US after 9/11. A lot of countries that would have nothing to do with Iraq sent troops or material support to Afghanistan. Even neutral counties like Ireland helped. A large %age of troops land in Shannon on their way over.

Maybe you should remember that.

7

FWIW

Bush ‘unaware’ of Pakistan threat

8

[QUOTE=yojimbo]
Maybe you should remember that.
[/QUOTE]

I do, and I thank you.

9

[QUOTE=John Corrado]
Yeah, the remark about “join us or get bombed” was allegedly about getting Pakistan to join us in the initial efforts to topple the Taliban.

Remember? Back when Bush had the “support” of the world do “what was obviously necessary” until it turned out that it involved actually doing something, at which point nations started bailing out and pulling back and saying that while 9/11 was horrible, it was no reason to go to the extremes of war with the Taliban, etc…

But, of course, we’ve forgotten all of that to hide behind the meme that “Bush squandered all of our wonderful, huge, incredible outpouring of support of 9/11 on this damned Iraq war”, because it’s easier to make a devil than it is to admit that other countries really just don’t give a shit about our suffering, and at times even revel in it.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen some dribbling idiocy in my time on these Boards, but that is right up there with the best of it.

Most nations, and most people within those nations, actually supported the initial efforts in Afghanistan. So did many liberals and leftists within the United States. Hell, the left/liberal journals that i read were talking about how bad the Taliban was well before anyone in the US government gave a shit about them. The complaints about Afghanistan now center on the fact that, while the Taliban might have been ousted, little has been done in terms of securing the country’s future, and inadequate planning and poor execution are leaving the country ripe for an extremist resurgence.

And this is connnected with the war in Iraq, because if the US had taken about 1/10th of the money it poured into the ill-advised and criminal invasion of Iraq, and put that money and effort into Afghanistan instead, there’s a chance that things might be better in Afghanistan. And they might also have caught Bin Laden.

And you can call it a “meme” in a puerile attempt to imply that it’s untrue, but it is simply a fact that the US did, indeed, have the support of most of the world after 9/11, and that Bush did squander that support with his invasion of Iraq. But if it makes you feel better to whine like a fucking baby that other people don’t care about your suffering, go right ahead. Will that hair shirt be a large, or a medium?

Idiot.

10

What exactly was the crime in explaining to Pakistan in very blunt terms that they did not have to option to remain neutral in the fight against the Taliban.

The Taliban was the creation of the Pakistani security services. Pakistan had very close relations with the Taliban. The Taliban wasn’t just an Afghan organization, it was a cross-border organization.

So if some Pakistani general told us that while they were sorry they couldn’t be seen to openly support the US against the Taliban, I sure as hell would tell them that they either helped us against their creation, or they would be considered as part of the problem.

And this has nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. Coalition of the willing my ass. Do you understand that this was before we had “squandered the goodwill of the world”? This was about Afghanistan, and the Taliban, and Al Qaeda? And we were gonna take out Al Qaeda, and anyone who stood in our way was gonna get flattened? And if Pakistan stood in our way we were gonna flatten them? And rightly so?

11

Don’t thank me. If I had my way not a single US troop would be allowed set foot on my Island once they were on official business*. It makes a mockery of our supposed ‘neutrality’. Would we have let Iraqi planes re-fuel if they were going the other way? Not in a world of Sundays. We should be no where near any of this IMO. I want the politicians that made that decision out of power and will try to best to make that happen come election time.

I’ll pass it on though :wink:
*I give a pass to soldiers going to Afghanistan as AFIAC that was a valid action as it was self defence. You were going after the people that hit you. Fair play. Iraq however is another matter.

12

Oh and by the way. Ireland was threatened with monetary sanctions by the US ambassador. He was brazen enough to say it in a interview on Irish TV.

We aren’t exactly Anti-American over here and yet our economy was threatened unless we helped. The Irish economy is very dependant on US multinationals. Clinton put down very favourable tax incentives to help with US investment into Ireland. These were put at risk we were told if we didn’t allow Shannon to be used as basically a US base.

That’s the way this admin works. Clinton came here and brought the country to a standstill. He got a reception that was quite awe inspiring. Regan got a great one too BTW, internal US politics matters little outside the US.

Bush came here and got protests and hatred spewed at him from all sides. There is a reason for this and it isn’t anti-Americanism. It’s the way this Admin portray themselves and deal with other countries.

13

[QUOTE=yojimbo]
Bush came here and got protests and hatred spewed at him from all sides. There is a reason for this and it isn’t anti-Americanism. It’s the way this Admin portray themselves and deal with other countries.
[/QUOTE]

See? John Corrado is right! Them damn Irish are reveling in our country being attacked! It’s time we declared a War on Leprechauns!

14

[QUOTE=Excalibre]
See? John Corrado is right! Them damn Irish are reveling in our country being attacked! It’s time we declared a War on Leprechauns!
[/QUOTE]

The great thing is, once we’ve defeated their oppressors, the freedom leprechauns will come dancing into the streets to shower us with gold!

At least I think that’s what that phrase means.

15

Indeed. The two mile queue outside the US embassy was to smack the ambassador not sign a book of condolence :slight_smile:

We actually had a national day of mourning because of it. No work for most of us, even pubs closed for half the day :eek:

I’ve heard even the Leprechauns got the day off from whatever mischief it is they get up to.

Anyway, Pakistan, Bush et al, eh!

16

Anybody else smell Medal of Freedom?

17

[QUOTE=Excalibre]
See? John Corrado is right! Them damn Irish are reveling in our country being attacked! It’s time we declared a War on Leprechauns!
[/QUOTE]

Sizist bastard!

Besides, what we really want to quash is Riverdance.

18

And that was a fucking Yank who can up with that BTW. Flatley is a fuck of the highest order. You should take the fucker back… please.

19

[QUOTE=yojimbo]
And that was a fucking Yank who can up with that BTW. Flatley is a fuck of the highest order. You should take the fucker back… please.
[/QUOTE]

Wait, what’d he do that’s so bad? I thought all he ever did was create bland, middlebrow entertainment.

20

[QUOTE=Lemur866]
What exactly was the crime in explaining to Pakistan in very blunt terms that they did not have to option to remain neutral in the fight against the Taliban.
[/quote]
Because death threats are a bit beyond blunt, and because it’s dishonest to call someone cooperating under one and “ally”.

[QUOTE=Lemur866]
And this has nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. Coalition of the willing my ass. Do you understand that this was before we had “squandered the goodwill of the world”? This was about Afghanistan, and the Taliban, and Al Qaeda? And we were gonna take out Al Qaeda, and anyone who stood in our way was gonna get flattened? And if Pakistan stood in our way we were gonna flatten them? And rightly so?
[/QUOTE]
Except that it was never about Al Qaeda or the Taliban, and we never treated them as anything other than a speed bump on the way to Iraq. It was always about Iraq. 9-11 was never anything other than an excuse to attack Iraq ( and screw America over ) to the Bush Admin. We have never seriously tried to “take out Al Qaeda”. Nor will we; the last thing Bush wants is to eliminate his bogeyman.