The Dixie Chicks played at Lilith fair a fewyear back and stole the show. A real hotbed of pro-Bush militarism, that.
In order to avoid being hypocrites, that’s why.
The President and his supporters should not hide behind the troops in order to deflect criticism of his descision to send them there in the first place. (Besides, the war hasn’t started yet. “This is no time to say we shouldn’t go to war; we’re about to go to war!”)
p.s. I support the war but the low-level fascism emanating from the Right is disturbing.
Quite frankly I don’t give a damn what the Dixie Chicks think about international politics. They’re wrong because they totally ruined a perfectly good Fleetwood Mac song. Bitches!
So you admit they’re hypocritical. Their problem isn’t criticism of the president, it’s criticism of this president. You admit that all this handwringing about 'the troops" is disinginenuous, grandstanding crap. It’s not about the troops, they just can’t stand for anyone to challenge their narrow little world view.
Go back to page one of this thread and read the post where I talk about all the artists who disagree with me, whose art I enjoy, nonetheless. I am quite capable of tolerating other opinions and even liking the people who express them. I would never destroy CD’s or burn books under any circumstances.
How do you know she wouldn’t have said it in Texas? And if her fans can’t take it, then her fans are the ones who are cowardly and stupid.
I have never pitted december or any other doper. I rarely even flame other dopers. And if you think I don’t get “challenged” for my posts, then you just haven’t been paying attention. What are you doing for Cripe’s sake?
What, exactly, is the difference between this and book burning. It’s exactly the same, it’s just a different medium. How about books on tape. Is running over books on tape the same as book burning?
Well, It’s no different than accusing those who oppose the war of being against the troops. I think this invasion is truly an amoral act by Bush, and that it will needlessly kill innoocent people. I’m not just going to bark and bang my flippers together out of some misguided notion that I must support my country no matter what. I want the troops to come home before they get gassed. I think that Bush is doing something truly unwarranted and indefensible, and that he’s hiding behind “the troops” to avoid personal criticism.
I didn’t say it was a white thing to do, I said it was a white trash thing to do. It 's their actions that make them trash, not their color.
I disagree that they’re over there for a “cause.” They’re doing their jobs and their duty. They’re doing what they signed up to do, and their own motives are pure. having said that, I really do think that they’re risking their lives for nothing, but that’s Bush’s fault, not theirs. Iraq is not a threat to the US. Bush is not justified in putting the troops in harm’s way. He is abusing his power as CiC.
I’m not blind to opposing arguments, I’m unconvinced by them. I believe that Hussein is an evil person. I believe that he hurts his own people. That is not a good enough reason to invade another country. Aggression against another sovereign nation is only justified, under international law, for self-defense or if it can be shown that another country poses an imminent and unambiguous threat to the invading country. Neither of these criteria has been met. We are not justified, under the letter of existing international law, in invading another country. It is not necessary for the security of the US, and, in fact, will probably increase the threat of terrorism as well as guarantee that whatever chemical or biological weapons Hussein has left will be used on US troops.
War talk aside, though, the comment made by the singer was not made with any specific reference to the war. There are plenty of other reasons to be ashamed of GWB besides the invasion of Iraq. Not the least of which is that he was a deserter during wartime.
Well, at least you’re consistent. I commend you for it, you’re not a hypocrite. As for the “childish name calling,” I plead guilty to it, I guess. I’m still right, though.
—The President and his supporters should not hide behind the troops in order to deflect criticism of his descision to send them there in the first place. (Besides, the war hasn’t started yet. “This is no time to say we shouldn’t go to war; we’re about to go to war!”)—
I agree. AQA, you are quickly joining DtC in being completely over-the-top about this issue. There is nothing impolite to the military about criticizing a President’s political choices, especially when you feel that he is putting the military in harm’s way unecessarily in the first place.
At this point, outrage on things like this seems utterly manufactured. It’s exactly the kind of non-story that people on conservative shows are paid to scan the news for and then work people up about… and so people get worked up about it. So it goes.
You got me. I admit it. All the fans of the Dixie Chicks are big fat hypocrits. :rolleyes:
Bolding mine.
So, if I gave you a “Screwdriver” (Neo Nazi music) CD you would add it to your collection, or you would toss it away?
How about if I sent you a book filled with child porn?
Because she hasn’t, and she didn’t. She said it in London.
OK. In addition to being hypocritical, all the fans of the Dixie Chicks are now both cowardly and stupid.
I am running out of these :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What makes them cowardly, stupid, and hypocritical more? Being Dixie Chicks fans, being from the south, or just being conservative?
You aren’t challenged enough.
The only thing I can think of to explain this is that no one even wants to bother because of how twisted your views are. Either that or the SDMB really is becomming the Democratic Underground.
Burning books is destroying knowledge. The obvious implication when somebody mentions “book burning” is a facist government burning books which they disagree with. You comparing this to fans of the Dixie Chicks making a statement about thier disagreement with the band is foolish and silly.
Huh?
You calling Bush a murderer for no reason during a Dixie Chicks debate != accusing anti-war folks of being anti-troops.
Even if it did, so what? Two wrongs make a right? Some on the right are guilty of something so you have open season to do the same thing?
How can that happen if Saddam doesn’t have any weapons of mass destruction? Are you conceding that such weapons do exist, and that he has been hiding them from the inspectors all along?
Oh, I’ve got it now.
Stealing isn’t a black thing to do. It’s a nigger thing to do. It’s their actions that make them niggers, not their color.
Take a gander at those respectful, full of manners wackos out there aburnin’ those CD’s and getting bent out of shape because a singer dared disagree with “the 'Merican Way”…AKA, “their” way. In case you haven’t heard their message, unless you are 100% behind Bush, you are considered an Anti-American godless, commie pig.
I saw those bigoted dickheads ranting the same thing back in the 60’s and I see they done a good job bringin’ up their kids.
“Manners and respect” my ass.
They are the same rabid bullies spewing hatred while wrapped in the American flag they think they own.
Flag burning is legal free speech. It doesn’t bother me, but I can see how others might think it was anti-American. I never said that CD burning should be banned, just that it’s stupid.
I don’t think that’s what she was talking about. In fact, given the environment of her statement and the tenor of her apology, I think we’re safe in assuming that she was talking about the war in Iraq.
I promise, I’m not trying to be over the top. In fact, I think I’m being utterly reasonable. And I’ve got evidence of my reasonableness – Democrats have been lining up left and right to mute their criticism of the President to provide support for our troops. For example, John Kerry used to be one of Bush’s staunchest critics on the Iraq front, but now he’s told the press that he’ll be backing off that criticism while we’re at war in order to show his support for the troops. I, for one, think that’s perfectly reasonable.
I think it’s interesting that you said “conservative shows.” Does this not take place on liberal shows?
Sorry, DMark, this isn’t the Pit, so I’m not going to touch your message.
A singer disagreed with her “fans” who are supposedly “mannered and respectful” simple folk.
I merely pointed out that those genteel fans turned on her like a pitbull on a sick three-legged kitten.
I further suggested there is a pattern to this kind of behavior and that there might be more books in German libraries if ancestors of said fans had left their bics at home.
By no means was I suggesting you are one of them. I think you have made that quite clear.
—Democrats have been lining up left and right to mute their criticism of the President to provide support for our troops. For example, John Kerry used to be one of Bush’s staunchest critics on the Iraq front, but now he’s told the press that he’ll be backing off that criticism while we’re at war in order to show his support for the troops. I, for one, think that’s perfectly reasonable.—
Ah, so politicians jockying to avoid getting any bad spin on them are now to be our guides on what is to be truly polite and principled Americans?
I don’t think it’s perfectly reasonable. Indeed, as I outlined, I struggle to understand the reason, since it doesn’t seem to include the usual connections between one thought and another that characterize the application of reason. The President is a civilian leader that commands the troops. How can criticizing him translate into a lack of respect for the troops, much less cause them danger, especially when the war has yet to start and part of the POINT of the criticism seems to be that “we should not be putting them in danger?”
We are not trying to live up to the standard set by reflexively placating the image of the Chinese government. We are trying to stand up to the standard set by the American ideal wherein we don’t mistake political leaders for gods, or accept them as proxies for the country. We are not only free to criticize our political leaders: it is the lifeblood of our democracy (in contrast to, say, the democracy of Iraq), and is probably more so, not less so, in times of conflict.
—I think it’s interesting that you said “conservative shows.” Does this not take place on liberal shows?—
Uh, not in this instance, no, given that this particular case was a chance for conservatives, not liberals, to score valuable “outrage” points. So it’s not “interesting” in the way you are politely implying.
I think there is a fundamental difference in how the terms are used and why. “Nigger” was a word used by one group of people to help opress and dehumanize another group of people. White people have never been oppressed by anybody, and the term “white trash” was invented and is mostly used by whites, themselves. It was specifically invented by white southerners, so if you have an issue with the word, take it up with them. “Nigger” applies to all black people, “white trash” just applies to a specific group of white people.
I suppose it could be argued that “white trash” has a classist connotation since it originally was applied to people who were poor, unsophisticated and uneducated. The way it’s used now, though, (in my own experience of the deep south) is that it refers to a kind of backwards, bigoted and willfully ignorant mentality. It doesn’t have to mean poor and uneducated. Jesse Helms, for instance, is inveterate white trash.
They are both offensive to a group of people. They are both based on race. They are both used as an insult.
The nerve. So, fuck them, right!
The term “nigger” is used mostly by blacks, themselves.
Cite? I am curious to know the “inventor” of the term white trash. What’s his name again?
Ahh, that makes it ok then? How about if someone says “Ghetto Nigger”. That only applies to a certain group of black people. That makes it ok with you?
These terms seem to have more in common then they do different. In any case, my analogy stands, because as I said earlier, the two only have to be similar for it to be valid. Which they most certainly are.
Amid all the sidetracks and attacks here (for which neither side is blameless), I’m surprised how little attention is being paid to the partisan double standard noted by Diogenes (and myself).
The Ditzy Chick was criticizing President Bush – not the military!!!
If her comments hurt the troops overseas, why didn’t anyone burn Ted Nugent’s CDs for his attacks on President Clinton? (I don’t have cites, because the ones I remember were on his radio show, and on ‘PI with Bill Maher’).
And to anyone who says that was OK because we weren’t at war then, I’ll let you debate that with several friends of mine who got called up to Kosovo.
It’s a cheap, dishonest debating tactic to claim that every criticism of a President you like is an attack on our brave fighting forces. To then turn around and defend attacking a President you don’t like is rank hypocrisy.
Personally think Ms. Maines comments were inappropriate. I voted for Bush, I support the war, and even if I didn’t, I would support our troops.
They are not both based on race. The "n’ word is based on race. “White trash” was originally based on economic status, and is now used to describe a certain attitude.
The point is that the term “white trash” does not carry the freight of racial opression that the “n” word does.
Cite? Also, black people didn’t invent the term, and I would WAG that most black people don’t use it.
You don’t like the word “invent?” How about originate? The term originated in the ante-bellum south.
I disagree. “nigger” is derogatory and racist while “white trash” is merely derogatory.