Western media/Obama hypocrisy on Ukraine

If this had happened in the US, the police would not just have stood there - they would have started shooting. Hell, people get shot in the US for reaching for their wallets.

My understanding is - and please correct me if I’m wrong - that the Parliament building was surrounded by protestors, that less than half of the members were there, and that majority members were beaten outside the building: presumably for trying to get in.

My overall impression is that the Ukrainian police were remarkably restrained, compared at least to American cops. I can’t imagine them standing around while people were throwing Molotov cocktails at them.

You are telling me then that all 40+ of those countries were ‘ignorant of international law’ whey the stood by the US. Ignorance is no excuse to ‘break the law’. If they are that ignorant of the law then they have no moral standard in judging Putin for ‘breaking the law’.
A majority of ‘ignorance’ supporting it does not ‘excuse’ what essentially Bush and Blair did.

The fascist/neo-Nazi nature of the protesters who forced the president to flee has been repeatedly cited - if they’re not currently in charge of Ukraine no-one is. The two choices in the forthcoming referendum in the Crimea are independence or union with Russia - the former being a return to the constitution adopted in 1992 and declared void by the Ukrainian government at the time. This is not a new issue, it’s that the Crimea now has a chance to actually do what it’s people want.

Firstly, this isn’t a “war”, not yet anyway. Secondly, the United States was caught red-handed scheming before the coup about who was to be installed in power, so you are still on shaky ground.

Most importantly however, you have less than artfully attempted to change criterion, bud. The matter for debate was whether or not an occupying force is a hindrance to “legitimate democracy”. Posters in this thread avowed that the occupying force in Crimea means the parliament’s vote was illegitimate. If that is true, the votes in Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, etc were illegitimate as well.
You also accept outright government propoganda on the wars of the past century, but that is another topic.

OK, they were illegitimate too. Now what?

Withdraw the empire and adopt a foreign policy of non-aggression.

I think you and the rest of the world have different definitions of “empire”. What has this to do with Crimea again?

The American establishment, including the media, is engaged in hypocrisy to the highest degree in criticizing Russia’s actions in Crimea. They, and posters on this board who usually take the establishment line, claim that the vote of the Crimean parliament is illegitimate because there is an occupying force there. Well, turns out there is an American occupational force in many of the worlds exemplary “democracies”. It is that of the US government.

How does the rest of the world define empire? I’m pretty sure your claim to represent the worlds view of empire is not shared with the rest of the world. Your view is likely that of neo-conservatives and other Wilsonian idealists. IOW a small minority.

Which "exemplary “democracies” have “American occupational forces”?

Can I ask are your feelings on this topic at all related to your anger at the defeat inflicted on the American South when they chose to secede to preserve slavery and white supremacy?

I ask because when I see you discussing the Crimea I’m reminded of the arguments you’ve made regarding South Carolina.

Name names or this is pure bull and chicken shit. Who are the posters you are referring to.?

Japan, South Korea, Germany, follow the thread so I don’t have to repeat myself.

I appreciate you recognizing my consistent support for self-determination

None of them are occupied militarily so your claims of “American Occupational forces” is asinine.

Based on your logic the US is occupying Cuba due to US military forces at Guantanamo.

It’s nice to have something to believe in but as the saying goes “foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”.

The fascist/neo-Nazi nature of the protesters who forced the president to flee has been repeatedly claimed, but not proven.

If you question the do-gooder empire you are a Commie(1950’s) Hanoi Jane(1960’s & 70’s) welfare queen(1980’s) big govt liberal(1990’s)’ weak on WOT; Saddam lover (2000’s) Muslim Symp. (2010’s) Putin lover(today)

Its how they work it.

If Human Action is observing those are not fixed dates. Some overlap/merge/converge,

Klitschko is a fairly standard cut the government, lower taxes, increase international trade neo-liberal, and Yatsnyuk’s platform focuses on government transparency, more money for education and health care and higher taxes on the rich and renationalization of some formerly privatized industry. Of the three of them, only Tyanybok and his party come close to the “fascist” label.

Just to expand a bit on this:

Obama Comes Out Against Crimea Self-Determination

Nailed it.

Paul Craig Roberts is a truther.

Perhaps it makes me a snob but I find truthers, birthers, and Holocaust Deniers to be nuts who shouldn’t be trusted.

I’m also pretty sure most people on this site think people who claim 911 was an inside job are unreliable cranks.

:rolleyes:

Debate 101: Attack the argument, not the source.

Debate 101-b: Appeal to popularity.

Of course if all your posts can do is makes “jokes,” ofuscate and use fallacies, well, that’s as good and telling a response as any.

*Paul Craig Roberts – quite an accomplished man BTW