They also don’t have the sustain of steel string, so that’s another thing when trying to bend a nylon as to why it may sound odd. As you know, I’m not a guitarist, but I futz around with them, and for nylons, my instinct is to play more “busy” broken chord/arpeggio type patterns on it, since the sound tends to die fairly quickly on them. From a keyboardist’s perspective (which is my main instrument), it’s somewhat like the difference between playing something like a harpsichord or clavichord vs a piano, although that is an imperfect analogy.
At any rate, I don’t think of nylon guitars as “cheap.” There’s cheap steel strings, cheap electrics, cheap nylons, and there’s mid- and high-priced versions of each. They’re just different instruments with different characteristics and tones. The cheapest guitar I ever owned was a steel string (some sort of parlor guitar–but those can go up in the thousands in price, too.) Personally, I think nylon strings are lovely instruments with a warm, mellow sound suitable, of course, for classical music, but other styles, too (like the aforementioned flamenco.)
All good and I appreciate the analogy to harpsichords. Classical and Flamenco guitars do have a different attack peak/decay curve than decent flattops, that’s for sure. Their rich, warm fundamental note, coupled with a shorter sustain, is perfect for the bursts of notes and multiple harmony and bass lines criss-crossing each other. Any sustain and you would get lost in the noise.
Interesting that jazz archtops have a similar attack peak-decay, but in a tool designed for a very different purpose. Their construction is bigger and more rigid, so you can bomp down with “Freddie Green chords” (those four-to-bar rhythm jazz chords made famous by Count Basie’s right-hand rhythm guitarist). Most archtops also have narrow necks, supporting that fast “jazz comping” approach.
Parlor guitars: yes, many/most are barely a step above a cigar-box guitar. Excellent examples like my old Martin 0-21 are the equal of any Best-in-Class example in any guitar category, same as the nylon-stringed examples we’ve been discussing here. (I also have a 4 string Cigar Box guitar I made with my son - fun to tune to Open G for a bit of gut bucket strumming or slide. A curiosity, but so limited.)
I love the sound of nylon strings in the hands of a talented bossa nova player.
When I’m in Brazil, I can listen to my wife’s uncle playing amazing bossa tunes for hours (he was a session musician at TV studios in Rio many decades ago). That music just doesn’t sound the same on any other guitar. To be fair, I will happily play “Wave” or “Chega de Saudade” on a jazz box, but those tunes sound so much better on a nylon string classical guitar (and with a more talented musician than me :p).
For the OP: I don’t think anyone’s specifically mentioned electro-acoustics yet. You can probably get a guitar in your price range which is fitted with hidden pickups, a preamp and a jack socket, the idea being that you can easily amplify it by plugging it into an amp or a PA system.
Whether or not you need this depends on your goals. If you’re only ever planning to play in your bedroom or around the campfire then the electronics will add cost needlessly. On the other hand, if you have aspirations to play in a band, you might well find the ability to plug in hugely useful.
As with all things, the quality of on-board electronics varies with cost. Cheaper systems won’t sound that great when amplified, but if you’re competing with a drummer who’s channeling Bonzo, it’ll help enormously.
One nice feature many electro-acoustics feature these days is a built-in tuner in the preamp.
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I wondered how long it would take Rodriguo y Gabriela to show up once the conversation turned to nylon strings.
I saw them live years ago; they’re great. I read somewhere that the luthier who custom-makes their guitars has a production line going because they’re so hard on them.
This doesn’t need to remain a thought experiment. All we’ll need is a cheap classical guitar, some steel strings, a crash helmet, a gullible friend, a webcam, a YouTube account and something to hide behind.
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It was either them or Leona Boyd and they tend to be more, say, dynamic.
FWIW, I have in fact put steel strings on my Dad’s nylon string Sears Western Guitar before I had a clue (or my own guitar). The action was ridiculous, and the bow in the neck was “significant”. I had them on for about three weeks before someone who actually knew something about guitars went “Holy Shit!” and started detuning it. I think it’s a great testament to the builders ( Silvertone) that the guitar didn’t implode. Doing that to a high end classical guitar would definitely go snap. I did manage to get the bends out and the bridge was still intact, but a little longer and it probably would have been catastrophic.
The other side of the electronics argument is that they can be retrofitted for nominal cost and you can put what money you have into a better instrument, or mic it.
Rodrigo y Gabriela are a good example of something that is totally out of any range I am ever going to be. They are jaw droppingly good.
My guitar will most likely never leave my bedroom. I would be quite happy just being able to play the intro and strum along to something like Make Me Smile by Steve Harley
So looks like I want steel strings and either a full size or three quarter size will do. I currently know about four chords - I’m getting bored with only being able to play the riff from Pinball Wizard (or two or three other songs) every time I pick up a guitar. I’m hoping I can learn most stuff from youtube without the need for lessons but we’ll see how it goes. Unfortunately I don’t have a guitar playing friend I can take to the shop but I know what feels comfortable and if I buy from a proper music shop I’m sure they will be helpful.
Thanks everyone. Glad I started this thread before I bought something! I’ll reread it and note down some of the recommended makes before I go to the shop.
Plan to spend some time at the guitar store. Try every guitar they have in your price range and see how easy it is to press the strings down and get a clear sound at the first, fifth and twelfth frets. If you have to fight to do so, that guitar is not for you.
Also check the neck. Assuming you are right handed, how easy is it for you to put your left thumb in the middle of the neck, then bring your left hand up and press the 6th string (the thick one) down without letting your hand touch the first string (the littlest one).
Check and see if the store has a package deal, where you buy the guitar and they throw in some free lessons.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the importance of a “setup”. Any guitar, even brand new, may have a somewhat indifferent setup from the factory, and is greatly affected by seasonal changes in temperature and humidity. Any used guitar should also be looked at prior to purchase by someone who knows what they are doing, if we’re talking any kind of real money.
Setup has to do with the relative straightness of the fretboard and height of strings above the frets. It greatly affects how difficult it is to fret chords and notes, and also the intonation, sustain, and tone, etc.
What I’m getting at, don’t buy a POS guitar that is not setup properly. It won’t stay in tune, won’t sound very nice, and will be very painful to play. This is not a recipe for a beginning player to succeed, it will likely result in frustration.
The good news is there are some excellent guitars, new and used, for around $500 or less. Many people enjoy setting up and maintaining their guitars, it’s not difficult and makes a huge difference in the enjoyment and will make one a better player. Like many hobbies, in recent years there is plenty of information available online now to guide you through it.
Fantastic song! And a lot of fun to play. I suspect most of us aren’t in R Y G territory despite decades of playing; and never will be. That should never stop you from trying though. I remember listening to an interview with Joe Walsh who said he was inspired by the Beatles, and when he finally met Paul Mccartney and had a chance to jam, Paul stopped and watched Joe play. After a minute Joe realized Paul wasn’t playing and asked if he was doing something wrong. Paul replied, that they had written the part Joe was playing for two guitars and couldn’t figure out how Joe was playing it on his own!
FWIW, you can literally play hundreds of songs using five first position chords (cowboy chords). If you can play AC/DC Shook Me All Night Long, you can play Dixie Chicks Goodbye Earl. Same chords, different playing style.
I would recommend getting a few lessons form a teacher, and getting out and jamming with others. I think you’ll find that most guitar folks are really good about playing together, and you’ll learn a lot! It’s also a lot of fun!
Don’t be intimidated either! I played with a young lady who told me she had only been playing for three months and wasn’t very good. She then proceeded to do a bang on rendition of Metallica’s One including the solos on her acoustic. My jaw nearly hit the floor.
You’re never as bad as you think you are, and you’ll never be done learning.
And a lot of fun to play. I suspect most of us aren’t in R Y G territory despite decades of playing; and never will be. That should never stop you from trying though. I remember listening to an interview with Joe Walsh who said he was inspired by the Beatles, and when he finally met Paul Mccartney and had a chance to jam, Paul stopped and watched Joe play. After a minute Joe realized Paul wasn’t playing and asked if he was doing something wrong. Paul replied, that they had written the part Joe was playing for two guitars and couldn’t figure out how Joe was playing it on his own!